Fort players looking for a home

For things that have to do with those crazy test servers... and yeah. By request of z-man, and, of course, you gotta obey...

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Whats you favourite fortress server?

Legit's Regular Fortress
1
4%
Wild West - Fortress
2
9%
2020 team challenge
12
52%
LoD - Tron World Cup Server
1
4%
AST Server - Fortress
1
4%
LoD - Fortress Server
4
17%
Dubki.Ru - Fortress Server
0
No votes
°°ps arena
0
No votes
...other...
2
9%
 
Total votes: 23

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Rain
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Fort players looking for a home

Post by Rain » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:59 pm

So, bugfarm gone... :cry:

We need a server. Not a clan server. We need a home and people that works in the back of it, like bugfarm was.

There are a lot of fortress servers really, but players (most of them) need a server where "the lag is a myth, it is only in your mind", a server respected and that makes people shut up and play.

Shit, while writing I realize word by word that we need bugfarm, or sort of.
This is a "community". Commune.
Said Lucifer

True. But we need "one" good server, not fourteen so so..
And maybe it is possible to find one good for our project.
Maybe dobki.ru?
Maybe steam machine?
There are a lot, we just need to choose one and start to work on it.
But... How many players "know how" to admin a server seriously and give it what is really necessary?
The guys who host them probably don't even know what bugfarm means and they surely don't listen to BUG cries or have the knowledge to analyze them.
Said wrtlprnft

Yes, we need someone able to do that.

Finally, what we need is not really a server, but people with knowledge and time to administrate it.

That is what Im asking.
Help!
Last edited by Rain on Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wrtlprnft
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Post by wrtlprnft » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:25 pm

This is exactly where the problem lies, thanks for summarizing it so nicely :)

Z-man was in a unique position there:
  1. He was the first to have such a server, making it something special and keeping people coming back
  2. He had a server with a connection that could hold 16 people no problem and had no traffic restrictions
  3. He has the knowledge of the game to respond to all these BUG cries and to fix the bugs, if possible. Noone else has such a great insight into arma's code.
  4. Apparently he had enough time and interest, too.
Unfortunately points 1, 2 and 4 don't apply anymore:
  • Fortress servers aren't unique anymore, and even if bugfarm was up and running exactly the way it was tomorrow, I doubt it would ever be as popular again.
  • Z-man thinks it isn't right to use his university connection for a private project
  • He's married and probably has other things to do, and maybe also his interest in dealing with players that would whine because of every change and dealing with people abusing BUG cries simply faded.
Sad as it is, I don't see anyone in the same position:
  • groundpig doesn't have a good connection for his server, and I don't know if he wants the long-term committment that goes with hosting and maintaining a server. I think he's the best person for that, though. He has a unique server, and he has gained lots of insight into the code by hacking it.
  • ed is hosting CTWF, which is also unique and popular, but again he's having traffic issues and won't be able to host another server (he already had to take down CTWCTF because it was eating too much). I don't know about long-term committment, but he's running CTWF just fine for some time now. I don't think he knows a lot about the internal workings of arma, though.
  • Luke-Jr has a good server, but limited time on his hand. He probably knows a thing or two about the engine as he invented hexatron. The problem there is that he has limited time and tends to only do something if it offers a prospect of earning money with it.
  • Tank has a good connection, but he also suffers of limited time and is already thinking about taking down servers because they eat so much traffic.
  • I myself don't have a dedicated server with a fast connection capable of holding 16 players and only a limited insight into the engine and network code. I had a unique server for a while that used to be popular, but at some point my interest faded. I never got around to do the continuous small changes and improvements necessary to keep it popular. I'm afraid that would happen again.
Sorry to anyone who I forgot on that list.

I think the way to go here might be some sort of group effort. Someone hosts a server, maybe accepting donations for keeping it running, and interested people get accounts on it. These would have to agree to some guidelines as not sharing IPs or harming the server and would get access to the BUG cries and the recordings accociated with it. Maybe even automatically publish the logs directly around BUG cries for everyone (IPs stripped) so that everyone can read them.

This is just a quick idea of mine, I don't know if it would succeed.
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Jonathan
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Re: Fort players looking for a home

Post by Jonathan » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:28 pm

Rain wrote:
The guys who host them probably don't even know what bugfarm means and they surely don't listen to BUG cries or have the knowledge to analyze them.
Said wrtlprnft

Yes, we need someone able to do that.
It's not needed for a good server (although I can imagine that players like it; you see a problem, and you can report it immediately and know that someone knowledgeable will look at it), but don't call it bugfarm when it isn't.

Late edit: I wasn't aware of wrtlprnft's post above here when I hit submit.

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Rain
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Post by Rain » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:20 pm

For Jonathan:
  • 1) I know that is not necessary for play and have a good server, but the project is to host "the main fort server".
    Players missed a place where to go.
    Yes, as I said, there are a lot of servers, fortress and sumo, standard and edited by admins; but no one of them make me and I think a lot of players at "home".
    2) The idea isnt that "rain hosts a server". rain hopes to learn less as possible about arma codes :lol:
    Im just a dreamer, and I try to help with projects and ideas.
    I already have a server and no problem with it, but Im talking about a folk-server, organized by the community and who can helps. That is why I talked about "knowledge" and "bugfarm".
    3) I quoted wrtlprnft just for talkin about the need of people with knowledge to analyze bugs. I never faked bugfarm and didnt know that someone did it. Just talking about something else.
For wrtlprnft:
  • 1) The server: as I said, maybe the steam team (that hosted steam machine) or who hosted dubki.ru (that seems a nice server), could help us hosting what we need. Then just organizing things we could start.
    2) People with knowledge: lets organize a meeting with all the people you talked about and then we will see who could work on it.

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Jonathan
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Post by Jonathan » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:28 pm

Interesting how the smallest post gets the largest reply. I only stated something (perhaps the obvious). I didn't attack you and actually like the idea. :)

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Rain
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Post by Rain » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:35 pm

lol, never took it as an attack.
/me is relaxed, just likes to explain, thats because my english sucks and Im always worried about what people understand of what I wrote.
Peace and love :D

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Post by Lucifer » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:53 pm

Give Swamplords Teams a run and let me know how it does. It's on my brandy-new DSL connection, and I noticed at least mom's ping looking a lot better than it used to, and it handled 5 players significantly better than it has in the past.
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Post by Manta » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:58 pm

Europeans seem to be congregating at the LoD fortress server, it doesn't have the same settings as bugfarm/CVS did though. It's an extremely laggy server for me and I average a 400 - 600 ping there when it's full.

For the most part I think CTWF has come to replace the position bugfarm/CVS held as the place to congregate and make friends. Before bugfarm (formerly CVS fortress) the place to hang out was the Breakfast or Swampland servers.

I think in a subject like this water finds it's own level and in this case players fine their own favorite server.
Last edited by Manta on Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tank Program
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Post by Tank Program » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:43 pm

wrtlprnft wrote:[*]Tank has a good connection, but he also suffers of limited time and is already thinking about taking down servers because they eat so much traffic.
Thinking about taking down the servers is more of an idle day dream speculation sort of thing. I did remove two because no one was really playing on them, but besides that they're some of the oldest servers, so I want to keep them up. And so, until my parents say I can't use the server at home anymore, they'll stay there. About the time, in reality... Time can be made for armagetron and I'd be willing to invest some time in setting up a server and getting it on its feet if people will play on it. I'm not going to setup a fortress server just for the sake of having one. But if it's something the community wants, I think it'd be worth donating back to the community some more.
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Your_mom
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Post by Your_mom » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:20 am

I can understand you missing the server. As for replacing it i doubt thats possible. In fact theres been a lot of Fortress clones with z-mans settings. Perhaps if you could put something together like wrtlprnft suggested, new settings for fortress with a lot of upkeep.


(slightly off topic)
Also thanks for asking politely. Several demanding posts about z-mans server shutdown have popped up since he shut it down... Remember servers are privileges not rights and individuals decisions need to be respected.


BTW. anyone keeping track of how many posts like this there are?

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2020
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Post by 2020 » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:55 am

been out of the loop for a bit...

feel free to use team challenge
i have paid for it in advance
and luke-jr assures me it is a good server
only i am in malta and my isp sucks hard

happy to go with a group admin of it

non-affiliated to any clan or team
including tronic monkeys

so...
you have a server if you want
what we need now
if is a bunch of people who might actually be bale to diagnose BUG cries
hold the line

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Rain
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Post by Rain » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:35 pm

Thanks for those replies.

Well, if 2020's server is ready to be a sort of bugfarm, thanks to him, now the problem is, who can analize bugs reports and fix them.
This server could be a start position to improve features of armagetron for future versions.
True that is only a fortress server, but we have to think that "fortress" is the only server that became a real style of arma, with fixed settings.

About admins, probably they should work only on technical aspects, I liked the way of self moderating of players of bugfarm. It was fair.
So no moderators.
[edit] Just to not be kicked for no reason....


.........................................................................................................


Last, if 2020 payed that server, how can we give back him money for that? Or should we find another server that doesnt need to be payed?

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2020
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Post by 2020 » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:34 pm

Rain wrote: Last, if 2020 payed that server, how can we give back him money for that? Or should we find another server that doesnt need to be payed?
not a problem
hold the line

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Rain
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Post by Rain » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:58 pm

Lets go on so.

Who is able to be admin?

Where are the knowledged players?

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Post by DDMJ » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:48 am

wrtlprnft wrote:[*]Luke-Jr has a good server, but limited time on his hand. He probably knows a thing or two about the engine as he invented hexatron. The problem there is that he has limited time and tends to only do something if it offers a prospect of earning money with it.
Woah not true! At least for his servers in America. 2 days ago I was in the server with someone else and all of a sudden we paused, then it our cycles were like floating up and up then the arena got really small and then a HUGE crash and then we tiimed out.
Rain wrote:1) The server: as I said, maybe the steam team (that hosted steam machine) or who hosted dubki.ru (that seems a nice server), could help us hosting what we need. Then just organizing things we could start.
Those are by far the 2 worst servers as regards to stability (except for Luke's of course). I have a server on steam machine, rain does, ast alex does, and instinct does. You can ask them and they will confirm that sometimes....BANG...everyone dies at once. It's as if some dude typed in /admin KILL EVERYONE! or some weird thing. Also, only Sasha has a good ping in Dubki.ru because it is located in Russia. That is pretty far away from some Europeans and Americans get over 300 ping easy.
Lucifer wrote:Give Swamplords Teams a run and let me know how it does. It's on my brandy-new DSL connection, and I noticed at least mom's ping looking a lot better than it used to, and it handled 5 players significantly better than it has in the past.
I was in you the day that you started it up a few weeks ago. It was you, me, and one other person and (sorry to say) my ping (and the other person's) was jumping like crazy...not to mention the sliding. So that would not be such a bright idea to use that server.
Manta wrote:Europeans seem to be congregating at the LoD fortress server, it doesn't have the same settings as bugfarm/CVS did though. It's an extremely laggy server for me and I average a 400 - 600 ping there when it's full.
Keep in mind that you have dial-up internet.
Manta wrote:For the most part I think CTWF has come to replace the position bugfarm/CVS held as the place to congregate and make friends.
CTWF is definately unlike Bugfarm in one huge way. Bugfarm discouraged "noobs" to come to the servers. It had several messages to tell these "noobs" to go practice in other servers. Nowadays, CTWF is the noob-magnet. It is amazing how uncompetitive it is especially compared to what Bugfarm was :(
2020 wrote:been out of the loop for a bit...

feel free to use team challenge
i have paid for it in advance
and luke-jr assures me it is a good server
only i am in malta and my isp sucks hard

happy to go with a group admin of it

non-affiliated to any clan or team
including tronic monkeys

so...
you have a server if you want
what we need now
if is a bunch of people who might actually be bale to diagnose BUG cries
Let's take a deep look into this quote:
2020 wrote:luke-jr assures me it is a good server
He assured Legit that it was a good server and that was the one where I was "flying" in. But then again, yours is one of them that Luke hosts in Europe so maybe it might be better. This is probably our best bet although you can't get recordings. All you can get are the logs that say: "# of seconds of Lag credit given." All you can see are the huge lag jumps occasionally. That's the only type of admining that needs to be done.

Wow! Long post, but I had figured it would be best to post it all in one post...maybe...

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