Cycles on Bugfarm Fortress now have a width of 0.1 grid units. Try to squeeze through tunnels smaller than that and you die instantly. CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE has been increased to 0.05 so during startup, the middle players don't get crushed accidentally.
The change is mainly for technical testing, an uncaught exception has already been found that way. I'll do a poll whether the change should be permanent later when people had their chance to decide whether they like it or not.
Experimental change: finite cycle width
Moderator: Z-Man
Experimental change: finite cycle width
Last edited by Z-Man on Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
this new tail law.....
i tell u know it works. It sthe most annoying thing in fort, it ends the tactic of going thru the middle, attacking is much much harder, and it ends the skill of grinding tighter. Also double binding is now impossible and there is so much tking at start just cos ppl are grinding how they usually grind which is tight
LOL im in cvs with about 15 players who all hate it. I have not seen a single advocate yet and these guys are all proper players who have been playing cvs for a long time not newbies.
i tell u know it works. It sthe most annoying thing in fort, it ends the tactic of going thru the middle, attacking is much much harder, and it ends the skill of grinding tighter. Also double binding is now impossible and there is so much tking at start just cos ppl are grinding how they usually grind which is tight
LOL im in cvs with about 15 players who all hate it. I have not seen a single advocate yet and these guys are all proper players who have been playing cvs for a long time not newbies.
Goodomega wrote:it ends the tactic of going thru the middle
You shouldn't claim all 15 people hate it when I have the logs that show otherwise. Give it some time, man. Try to adapt, there will be a poll.
Just another note: Double Grinding is still possible. Your first reversal grind isn't tight enough to kill you. What may kill you is the guy outside of you grinding too hard. So do what I advocate for a long time: Announce your double grind so your teammates can accomodate for it.
my opinion
i dont like the change. i think its a skill loss for pro fortress players (omega pointed out some reasons alrdy before). it indeeds make db almost impossible. its only possible if the one next to you grind very slight, well and there arent much players who will do that, so db'ing will soon be gone totally with these settings.
its probably a help for new fort players, but as the bugfarm server lives more of the pros than the newbs i think these settings should be removed in future again.
greez k3nny
its probably a help for new fort players, but as the bugfarm server lives more of the pros than the newbs i think these settings should be removed in future again.
greez k3nny
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wrtlprnft
- Reverse Outside Corner Grinder
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I've been on fortress half an hour ago, and i love the feature
First, it makes doublegrinding really hard, which is a good thing. There are few good doublegrinders out there that can actually do something with the speed, and the rest just screws everyone up. Just yesterday I had people doublegrinding on both sides of me and break really late, I always ended up with <40 m/s of speed and almost no room to turn. Certain death. Now, if noone can doublegrind without risking to get killed the game might be more fun again.
And if it ends people squeezing down the centre, that's a good thing too
/me wonders why people hate holes, but instantly cry if they get stripped of the fast coming-down-centre victory, which is at least equeally cheap.
First, it makes doublegrinding really hard, which is a good thing. There are few good doublegrinders out there that can actually do something with the speed, and the rest just screws everyone up. Just yesterday I had people doublegrinding on both sides of me and break really late, I always ended up with <40 m/s of speed and almost no room to turn. Certain death. Now, if noone can doublegrind without risking to get killed the game might be more fun again.
And if it ends people squeezing down the centre, that's a good thing too
/me wonders why people hate holes, but instantly cry if they get stripped of the fast coming-down-centre victory, which is at least equeally cheap.
There's no place like ::1
i was on the server again, pos. 5 so outside of one double binder (you need help). jez i really grinded light but he died, then i tried again, i really like didnt touch the wall and he finally came through. Double binding isnt a skill of your own with these setting, you are dependent of your outside grinder. And: games last much longer now, because you cant get through middle as pos.1 player at start. long long rounds can make the game boring.
I like the change . I only got killed once because of it during an hour of play, and that was after the round ended anyway.
The change moves the emphasis from technical to tactical skill; now you can't rely on grinding tighter than the opponent, you have to be smarter than him/her. It will certainly help everyone to improve their game even further, no more stupid *I'm sure I can squeeze through that grind*-deaths. Only negative thing I can think of is that it probably will make the rounds longer once people have gotten used to it.
. I only got killed once because of it during an hour of play, and that was after the round ended anyway.The change moves the emphasis from technical to tactical skill; now you can't rely on grinding tighter than the opponent, you have to be smarter than him/her. It will certainly help everyone to improve their game even further, no more stupid *I'm sure I can squeeze through that grind*-deaths. Only negative thing I can think of is that it probably will make the rounds longer once people have gotten used to it.
I only agree about the whining thing here... coming down through center and actually kill or just block out the defender and then win the round before some replacement comes helping isn't all that easy and only works on bad defenders or once or twice a match on good defenders.wrtlprnft wrote:/me wonders why people hate holes, but instantly cry if they get stripped of the fast coming-down-centre victory, which is at least equeally cheap.
Using a hole is totally easy and everyone is able to "just drive through" a hole. But I don't have anything against holes, only thing I hate is when 2 people attack, one makes a hole on purpose and the other just drives through.
Wow great, what about being more skilled at actually controlling the bike, timing your tight grind etc.? You needed tactics before too, just now you lost benefit from being a skilled driver.MaZuffeR wrote:I like the change :)The change moves the emphasis from technical to tactical skill; now you can't rely on grinding tighter than the opponent, you have to be smarter than him/her.
About the change... I do not like it, it eleminates a lot of good tactics, especially with so many n00bs coming in lately. DGing gets you killed by teammates because there isn't enough room anymore.
Grinding center is impossible too. Squeezing out of "traps" (which also needs skill) isn't possible anymore and squeezing into something isn't possible anymore either.
So all in all people with the skill to really control the cycle are screwed and especially more so if the other people who are less skilled gets them killed by grinding too early/tight, or whatever.
In theory that change is realistic, but it sure removes a lot of elements from the game, talking about nerf here. Looks like AA is going the WoW way too now... taking n00bs by the hand, removing the need for a skilled player and let n00bs and those sorry individuals who take a pleasure in destroying other peoples fun rule the life of the former good players.
No thanks, at least not for fortress as it is right now.
Other settings might be different.
Last edited by belenus on Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- bel
what i try to say is that its a (technical) skill loss.
you depent on the outside grinder whether you get squeezed when you db at start, so thats the skill of the other player not yours.
a few skill-loss points:
- gettin through mid at start (mostly pos. 1); almost impossible now. (a plus for the defender)
- db almost impossible (now alrdy almost no one does it, those who do it get mostly squeezed) (a plus for dender(s) / defending ppl)
- sb who is inside-defending is amlost unbeatable: actually only holes work now. Without these settings you may manage to get back in at high speed between the attackers cycle and his tail. So a 1 on 1 against a inside-defender would be quite boring because the attacker can only circle him, and circle him... hoping he dies. (a plus for defender)
i think the game may gets to defensive?
you depent on the outside grinder whether you get squeezed when you db at start, so thats the skill of the other player not yours.
a few skill-loss points:
- gettin through mid at start (mostly pos. 1); almost impossible now. (a plus for the defender)
- db almost impossible (now alrdy almost no one does it, those who do it get mostly squeezed) (a plus for dender(s) / defending ppl)
- sb who is inside-defending is amlost unbeatable: actually only holes work now. Without these settings you may manage to get back in at high speed between the attackers cycle and his tail. So a 1 on 1 against a inside-defender would be quite boring because the attacker can only circle him, and circle him... hoping he dies. (a plus for defender)
i think the game may gets to defensive?
Was impossible against good players before too, all it took was a 4+ grind by the player left of the middle, I have killed lots of people just by grinding tight enough in that position. (though it beats me why it was so difficult for most people to understand to grind that hard)oO.k3nNy wrote:what i try to say is that its a (technical) skill loss.
you depent on the outside grinder whether you get squeezed when you db at start, so thats the skill of the other player not yours.
a few skill-loss points:
- gettin through mid at start (mostly pos. 1); almost impossible now. (a plus for the defender)
The situations were you could get inside in without a mistake by the defender were very rare before the change, not a big difference here imho- sb who is inside-defending is amlost unbeatable: actually only holes work now. Without these settings you may manage to get back in at high speed between the attackers cycle and his tail. So a 1 on 1 against a inside-defender would be quite boring because the attacker can only circle him, and circle him... hoping he dies. (a plus for defender)
Well, some people are just the mistake themself... always have a gap or whatever and can just drive through (when they're nice they even crash your wall)...MaZuffeR wrote:The situations were you could get inside in without a mistake by the defender were very rare before the change, not a big difference here imho
- bel