Administrators for cafe

For things that have to do with those crazy test servers... and yeah. By request of z-man, and, of course, you gotta obey...

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AdyLucifer
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Administrators for cafe

Post by AdyLucifer » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:48 pm

Well its nto funny to do what i used to do when i was admin at my clan's servers:kicking silencing etc people, i was a kid yes,but its very different when it happens to you,and it did today,at café which i thought has no owners or whatever,now it seems there are new silencing functions and all that stuff.
What you need besides of that are good admins, and not ones who silence and kick you just because you say they suck or just because u talk in caps,i'm not saying who it was but really, please get responsible people to admin it as its the main arma fortress server,and if ur admin treats people like that it could lose its symbolic fame.
The death is so sure of its victory,that it gives us a whole life to try escape.

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Z-Man
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Post by Z-Man » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:10 pm

Talking in CAPS and insulting the admin are, like other SPAM, perfectly valid reasons for a silencing in my book. And by extension, if the spam continues via /msg, reason for a kick. All without explanation if the admin is busy playing.

Of course, it all depends on the situation, but you're sufficiently vague :)

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wrtlprnft
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Post by wrtlprnft » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:24 pm

Café was operated by noone all along. Nobody ever paid for it, nobody ever updated it, nobody ever did anything about it.

I've gotten quite a few complaints about dicks on café that were hard to kick using polls, and requests to appoint moderators. I just looked at the logs for a bit, there does indeed seem to be quite a bit of silencing going on, but the logs are hard to grep for who executed which command. I'll change that and maybe get a way for myself to get notified about any use of admin power.

To the admin who will hopefully read this: *please* don't kick for personal reasons or things that could be solved by you just adding the offender to your personal ignore list. For occurences of racism, heavy insults or really heavy obscenity feel free to silence them completely. People who chat in color all the time are definitely annoying, but just ignore them or use the friendly reminder bound to the return key by default.

Newbies who would otherwise get votekicked are probably better off being suspended for a few rounds, so do that.
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AdyLucifer
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Post by AdyLucifer » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:49 pm

Z-Man wrote:Talking in CAPS and insulting the admin are, like other SPAM, perfectly valid reasons for a silencing in my book. And by extension, if the spam continues via /msg, reason for a kick. All without explanation if the admin is busy playing.

Of course, it all depends on the situation, but you're sufficiently vague :)
lol, it seems i just arrived by the time there was some kind of miniwar between them and i just said 'moo'and got ''mooed'',lol,im the less afected by this but anyways its not about me and what wrtl says is what i expected as an answer so this topic can be closed until forther notice :P

P.S. very nice fast forum answering,really apreciate that you guys give us so much attention :).and nice beta, ive been testing it out! :)
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Post by Concord » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:27 am

Anyway to a vote for
a 5 round suspension?

5 minute silencing?

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Z-Man
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Post by Z-Man » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:32 am

New vote types require clientside support. It's there since 0.2.8 or so, but I decided against implementing the vote types you mention on 0.2.8, because it's finally time to even move the small things to the trunk.

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AdyLucifer
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Post by AdyLucifer » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:08 pm

=== Z-Man says: sorry, pressed 'edit' instead of 'quote', can't restore the beginning of the message, sorry :/ Not the first time this happens. Sorry, Ady! ===
Ady says..you deleted more than the beginging...¿¿zman??
Original post:
***
Resumee- me and some people disagree on the fact that Epsy should moderate the servers as he shows a lack of respect to the others abusing his moderator powers.


--With a poll, the community votes,its the will of the community.Should a person stop the poll and do what he thinks is right,despite the fact that the community thinks contrary to him?
--Silencing for no 'valid' reason,although i don't use to chat much,still hurts,and it does more when you know its someone who you can't do nothing against.
--The moderator should be someone with neutral positions on all conflicts.(hoop does it great)
--Insulting isn't a way to comunicate for me.
--I play this game for the pleasure it gives the feeling of winning with a team,and for the good time I have with the players that play with me.This kind of things, I can assure,give no pleasure.


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Last edited by AdyLucifer on Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Z-Man
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Post by Z-Man » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:17 am

'Edit' and 'Quote' buttons are too close together :( Sorry!

epsy
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Post by epsy » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:10 am

AdyLucifer wrote:--With a poll, the community votes,its the will of the community.Should a person stop the poll and do what he thinks is right,despite the fact that the community thinks contrary to him?
I have been promoted to moderator privileges for assuring various things, including initiating newbies to the game when possible. Therefore, i had, this time like many other times, to stop the poll and teach that player. I assume that decision, esp. since that player, as many such players, got to know basic gameplay some minutes later.
AdyLucifer wrote:--Silencing for no 'valid' reason,although i don't use to chat much,still hurts,and it does more when you know its someone who you can't do nothing against.

Code: Select all

[2] Ady-Lucifer: Kick him.
[2] Ady-Lucifer: Theres a server for them to learn
[2] Ady-Lucifer: Niolon: try Crazy tronners wild fortress to learn.
(etc)
And that really showed how you weren't going to help him. That's why i silenced you as to tell you to stop with that crap. I also unsilenced you in less than 2 rounds.
AdyLucifer wrote:--The moderator should be someone with neutral positions on all conflicts.(hoop does it great)
1/ What conflicts?
2/ What do you mean with neutral? Doing nothing?
AdyLucifer wrote:--Insulting isn't a way to comunicate for me.
At that point, it was still a "friendly" try to make you consider the way you were behaving.
You know what i mean with "friendly", most players actually act such "friendly", including you.
AdyLucifer wrote:--I play this game for the pleasure it gives the feeling of winning with a team,and for the good time I have with the players that play with me.This kind of things, I can assure,give no pleasure.
Well, if you had that less to say on the grid, i don't see how a silence during 1 round could hurt you.

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AdyLucifer
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Post by AdyLucifer » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:22 am

Code: Select all

[2] Ady-Lucifer: Kick him.
[2] Ady-Lucifer: Theres a server for them to learn
[2] Ady-Lucifer: Niolon: try Crazy tronners wild fortress to learn.
(etc)
You stopped the poll just 1 second before he would have got suspended.Everyone voted yes,so everyone agrees with me.Those sentences have 5 min pause space between them, i didnt say them all at once, and you replied with '**** off'.
AdyLucifer wrote:--The moderator should be someone with neutral positions on all conflicts.(hoop does it great)
Anyone but you.If you dont even know what beeing neutral is.
epsy wrote:At that point, it was still a "friendly" try to make you consider the way you were behaving.
You know what i mean with "friendly", most players actually act such "friendly", including you.
Noone saw strange the way i acted,as i said before, they agreed with me,if its you whos different from the others maybe the problem is on you not on us.
If most of the players act such friendly,means you dont like most players,also means you are not neutral.Try see the facts not the circumstances.
epsy wrote:Well, if you had that less to say on the grid, i don't see how a silence during 1 round could hurt you.
It was 2 long rounds,and what hurts its the fact that you did it ,in a senseless way.
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Post by epsy » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:35 am

AdyLucifer wrote:

Code: Select all

[2] Ady-Lucifer: Kick him.
[2] Ady-Lucifer: Theres a server for them to learn
[2] Ady-Lucifer: Niolon: try Crazy tronners wild fortress to learn.
(etc)
You stopped the poll just 1 second before he would have got suspended.Everyone voted yes,so everyone agrees with me.Those sentences have 5 min pause space between them, i didnt say them all at once, and you replied with '**** off'.
wrtl turned off the kick->suspend poll conversion, as there was a problem with old clients voting incorrectly, so the player was going to be kicked.
Also, you were still very discouraging, and being silenced 2 rounds wasn't that much at all.
AdyLucifer wrote:--The moderator should be someone with neutral positions on all conflicts.(hoop does it great)
Anyone but you.If you dont even know what beeing neutral is.
Yes, i was taking part for the newbie. Now I doubt that's bad.
epsy wrote:At that point, it was still a "friendly" try to make you consider the way you were behaving.
You know what i mean with "friendly", most players actually act such "friendly", including you.
Noone saw strange the way i acted,as i said before, they agreed with me,if its you whos different from the others maybe the problem is on you not on us.
Maybe helping newbies never was in the mind of most people, and that's why I had to stop the kickvote.
If most of the players act such friendly,means you dont like most players,also means you are not neutral.Try see the facts not the circumstances.
This argument makes no sense. Most players talk that way and I do too.
epsy wrote:Well, if you had that less to say on the grid, i don't see how a silence during 1 round could hurt you.
It was 2 long rounds,and what hurts its the fact that you did it ,in a senseless way.
Already explained my reasons, see my previous post.

PS: Knowing you left right after i unsilenced you, how come your system clock shows you talking after i silenced you?
PS2: right, you're trying to confuse things by posting the shots you took after in reverse order, nice trick

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AdyLucifer
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Post by AdyLucifer » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:22 am

i scrolled up and screenshoted,its not the real time.

-helping that guy made ur team lose 2 of their players.
-if you think your spammy helpful colored messages are ok,you're wrong- private messages exist
-i'm pretty sure that if the first priority was to help newbies than to win the match,anyone would play fortress.im not against newbies,and dont try to involucrate newbies and me to make you look like the newbies salvator,look up there,the first post,what was that about?
I also care about new guys,that's why i waited 5 rounds before kicking him.
As far as i know there are kicks for those whose kick polls get rejected, if the community wouldnt like to kick him considering that they'll instruct him, i would have got kicked.So its a fair price,not needing your intervention.
And i didnt know about the suspension-thing not working.

Im missing the comment of some of the 'big guys'.
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Post by Concord » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:59 am

I would be happy
if /teach was available to everyone
If I wanted to spam someone
I could just do /msg

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Lucifer
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Post by Lucifer » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:20 am

Ah, the tyranny of the majority. Gotta love that.

Also, in ady's defense, the forums reverse the order of the files you post so that the last one you post is the first one shown. So he actually did post them in the order they were taken. :)

Anyway, I suspect that if wrtlprnft thought the majority would always make the right decision, he wouldn't have made moderators in the first place. You're committing the fallacy of popular appeal, one of the great informal fallacies of logic. That means your argument is invalid, sorry. The reason it's a fallacy is because it assumes that the popular opinion is always the right one, and that's not guaranteed. All the popular opinion shows is what many people think. All I need do to prove my point is say one word: Bush. :)
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wrtlprnft
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Post by wrtlprnft » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:47 am

Argh, this was exactly the reason why I hesitated to appoint moderators: the endless pointless discussions about whether a moderator did the right thing.

Tell me, what multiplayer game has such a high newbie- kicking rate? All other games I've played required you to do really retarded stuff to get kicked.

epsy had only one way to protect the newbie from your chat (besides the more harsh methods that really wouldn't have been appropriate here). Silencing someone on the server side for personal reasons is unnecessary as the client-side silence menu is sufficient, but telling the newbie who had enough problems already how to silence someone won't help a lot.

Lucifer: He didn't attach anything to the forums.

Concord: /rtfm messages aren't currently logged in the server logs, so I have no way of seeing if they're abused or not. They don't respect the silence menu, either. I'll try to solve both problems.
The big issue with /rtfm is that these messages are quite a bit longer than a private message could ever be, so I can already see it being abused to distract a defender without anyone else knowing… Maybe I'll add an additional access level for people who are only allowed to /teach.
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