An end to Fortress...

For things that have to do with those crazy test servers... and yeah. By request of z-man, and, of course, you gotta obey...

Moderator: Z-Man

Post Reply
User avatar
ed
Match Winner
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:34 pm
Location: UK

An end to Fortress...

Post by ed » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:32 pm

You are left with a one on one battle, the defender is good, and seals himself in a tight box. The attacker is also good and this is an important match, he aint taking too many chances. On and on it goes, I'll go make mayself a cup of tea.
Wait, what are those? deathzones are hurtling their way towards the fortress! Oh, managed to avoid those, that was close, here come some more from the side! And they're Bouncing!

"Bugfarm Fortress clone with alternate ending" now online.

Current settings, after 30 seconds of no deaths the first wave of dz's come at you, 40 seconds later the second wave. These times should be increased, but you're more likely to see what you're getting during this test.

The dz's are avoidable by both attackers and defenders, but you will just need a couple more eyes.

Oh, and the server is quite buggy at times. That's what you get for so many hacks.

User avatar
Rain
Round Winner
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: a random empty server playing with bots

Post by Rain » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:12 pm

apart bugs, that are very occasional, it is very funny to play there, normal fortress but lack of stall times. good work ed!
END OF LINE

User avatar
AdyLucifer
Average Program
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:05 pm

Post by AdyLucifer » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:18 pm

Right, it's a very nice idea trying to find a solution to the etern-rounds , yes but i guess this is not the right one. In all new "invents" there is people that likes it and others that don't think its a good thing, I would put myself in middle of that two positions.
I've played it for 3 days,and well, I dont think its fair for the defence when after 30 seconds with no death, there appear the deathzones and 3 enemy players get into your zone because you had to avoid a dz to keep your easy-to-lose tron life.
Its also hard to avoid the zones using the custom camera, I died 70% of the times.
I agree that on 1v1 it could be useful but if the point is to make it more fair and interesting for all, why not trying different experiments, like , per example, when there are 2 players left, the well known 1v1, let the walls length convert to 200 so it will automatically be a sumo, and both players would have to fight in a fair way,and that should happen on a 1v1, not 2v1 or more than that because it would be very unfair for the defence.

I'm not trying to say that you had a bad idea or this "sucks" , it does not, i like this idea, and ed you did a great work there, but its not the better way, i dont know, im trying to help out with this giving ideas, and i think resizing the tail automatically would be the most correct one.

I just felt like giving my opinion, peace ;)
The death is so sure of its victory,that it gives us a whole life to try escape.

User avatar
Rain
Round Winner
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: a random empty server playing with bots

Post by Rain » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:36 pm

if you encounter a 3 vs 1 situation it means your team failed the objective.
as flip said in game, the main problem is that people just don't like to change.
today playing there it seemed someone (ed or ct) wanted to abuse fortress style, making it bad and noobish.
1) ed made his own server with his own settings and declaring how it was
2) it is too usual that those supposed "pro" players when ecounter a server where they lose or where they play bad they start calling it "for noobs" and blaming it or who made it
fortunately there is someone who REPORTS his feedbacks (ady) or just decide to play elsewhere instead of just blame and purpose to all to move elsewhere.
respect the work the others do and play whereever you like to.
END OF LINE

User avatar
ed
Match Winner
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:34 pm
Location: UK

Post by ed » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:08 pm

Thanks for the comments.
I have changed the time_since_last_death_deathzone_start to 60 seconds now, with the 2nd wave coming after another 40 seconds.
The script could do with some tidying up, if the server gets used I will do this.

I've seen some very skillful players weaving there way successfully through the zones while defending their base.
I've also seen good players get killed by the zones. They didn't like the new zones idea ;)

It's a lot of fun, I personally prefer it to the current winzone solution in Ladles, etc, and the nukezone that was on Fortress test server last time I was there, and the expanding deathzone in ctwf.

Any idea's of other ways to end this? Involving moving zones of course.
For instance, I could introduce a flag zone to a random location on the grid. Another way to win the round would be to go grab it and return it to your own base. That would be interesting. But maybe it's straying to far from the point.

It is a heavily hacked version of tron needed to currently implement this ending. I'm hoping with scripting and zones version 2, something like this would be a doddle to implement?

~*PsYkO*~

Post by ~*PsYkO*~ » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:17 pm

I think the deathzones NEED to be more random. It is fine that you are looking for a way to end the rounds quicker (I don't mind them tbh) but the way it is set up right now favors the offense immensely.

User avatar
philippeqc
Long Poster - Project Developer - Sage
Posts: 1526
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:55 am
Location: Stockholm
Contact:

Post by philippeqc » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:56 pm

Throwing a few ideas is always fun and much easier than implementing them yourself ;). So here is my bunch of "I have an idea, lets to X. I don't know how to program, but I'm sure it's easy!"
PsYkO wrote:I think the deathzones NEED to be more random.
Yes, more random, but symmetrically! Each zone going on one side (from an imaginary line between both fortress) needs to have a twin going on the other side. Now to as to if they should be "mirrored" (when look from one fortress toward the other fortress, both twins are, say, on the left), or should they be purely symmetrical (same setup, one on the left, one on the right), I don't really see how it could advantage one fortress over the other (beside that I think there is a majority of defender who turn in one direction, so the mirror setup might randomly disadvantage either of the defenders)

Keep up the good work!

-ph
Canis meus id comedit.

User avatar
Lucifer
Project Developer & Local Moonshiner
Posts: 8610
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:32 pm
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Post by Lucifer » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:46 pm

I believe even/odd are the words you're looking for, phillipe. And since the spawn points are odd, so too should the zones be.
Image

Be the devil's own, Lucifer's my name.
- Iron Maiden

User avatar
Lucifer
Project Developer & Local Moonshiner
Posts: 8610
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:32 pm
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Post by Lucifer » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:50 pm

Heh, now that I think about it, I've got some more ideas that I'm not going to code.

* Increase tail length when it's 1 vs 1 and there have been no kills for x seconds. Just make them infinite for 10-20 seconds. (If this is what ady meant, then I guess it's his idea, I just didn't understand his post at all)

* When it's 2 v 1, make explosion radius really large for one kill.

* When it becomes 1 v 1, enable shooting. :)

(All of these, with the exception of the last, could be implemented in a wrapper script on the regular distribution)
Image

Be the devil's own, Lucifer's my name.
- Iron Maiden

User avatar
AdyLucifer
Average Program
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:05 pm

Post by AdyLucifer » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:48 am

Lucifer wrote:
* Increase tail length when it's 1 vs 1 and there have been no kills for x seconds. Just make them infinite for 10-20 seconds. (If this is what ady meant, then I guess it's his idea, I just didn't understand his post at all)
Well,I meant doing the reverse, as the walls length by default is 400 and that allows making a box around your fortress zone, I meant making it 200, so it would convert to sumo, it would be impossibl to make the "box" and the players would have to fight inside the fortress zone, but your ideas are also nice :).
The death is so sure of its victory,that it gives us a whole life to try escape.

User avatar
ed
Match Winner
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:34 pm
Location: UK

Post by ed » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:12 pm

Nice idea's. I've modified the script somewhat.
Back to 30 seconds no kills (for testing purposes), then the fun starts.

Every 3 seconds 2 new randomly generated zones will be added to the grid. One a mirror in size, coordinate, speed, angle of the other.

dz size: min 5, max 20
coordinate (still using original bugfarm map 500x500): min 200 max 300, x and y
speed: x and y speed, min 1 max 30 - the angle is derived from the x/y speed.

The zones alternate between the left and the right of the grid.

It's a lot of fun. I have no time to fully test it right now.
Comments, suggestion welcome.

User avatar
Ricochet
Round Winner
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Post by Ricochet » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:06 pm

imo, after a not particularly large amount of time, there is an amount of dzs that becomes highly irritating and bordering on intolerable sometimes, depending on how many ppl are still alive. they can also screw up the likes of an amazing sumo, too.

my idea would be to either increase the time between each new dz, or make each single one very small.

just my 2 cents - what do u think?

User avatar
ed
Match Winner
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:34 pm
Location: UK

Post by ed » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:27 pm

Well the time is short since it's a test server. If I set it at a reasonable amount of time you'd rarely see it, thus be unable to test it :?

I think you're right about smaller zones. They do become a bit much when you get a massive one heading straight for you. I'll try it out.

User avatar
Ricochet
Round Winner
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Post by Ricochet » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:34 pm

I see your point, yes. Seems like a good idea overall though :)

Post Reply