Mac 0.2.9_alpha_r1373: scoreboard & player_random_color, etc

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Phytotron
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Mac 0.2.9_alpha_r1373: scoreboard & player_random_color, etc

Post by Phytotron »

Two things:

1) Used to be I could make the scoreboard go down by just hitting Page Down. No longer works; I have to either hit Tab again or ESC. Intended? I would prefer Page Down still worked.

2) Very strange. Player_random_color will be set to 1 on each launch. Only happens when I have the following settings_visual.cfg in place, located in /Application Support/Armagetron Advanced/config. Doesn't happen with previous versions, obviously.
settings_visual.cfg.zip



Out of curiosity and other notes, some not necessarily specific to this version, most of these coming up from this being the first time I've tried with a fresh user.cfg:

- What's the intended purpose of the "simple trails" option?

Also, so now they're officially trails, not walls? Inconsistent with dir_wall.png, too.

- I think "toggle spectator" should not be at the bottom of the menu list under all the instachats. Too buried.

Speaking of buried, just wanna reiterate that I think the Global Keyboard Configuration should be relocated under Player Setup, at the same level as and listed above the Player Settings.

- Setting "toggle fullscreen" to a normal letter makes it impossible to switch while chat or console are up. An old thing, since it used to be F (right?), but was reminded of it. And why is it now N?

- I think Free and Fixed cam should either be disabled by default and/or reordered to the back of the camera switching cycle. Another old thing, but it rears its head in the little mini-tutorial (which I just tried for the first time) as you change camera as instructed but then are immediately instructed to start turning or glancing again. Might not be as relevant in the new tutorial. Regardless, Smart -> Custom -> Incam, I think.

Also, both V and C change camera? Why?

- The responsiveness of the turning is really poor out of the box, even for a novice. It seems to be the fact that you've set the default speed factor to -2, so the effect of CYCLE_DELAY_TIMEBASED gets increased as well, yeah?

Why not just put the speed factor back to 0 and return the default speed to 10 instead? (I still don't know why it got moved up to 30 sometime in the middle of 0.2.8.)

For that matter, why have "Speed" apply to the speed factor at all? How about just making that the actual CYCLE_SPEED and possibly add an Acceleration?


I reckon most of this second section would apply more toward 0.4, but hey.
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Re: Mac 0.2.9_alpha_r1373: scoreboard & player_random_color,

Post by Z-Man »

Phytotron wrote:1) Used to be I could make the scoreboard go down by just hitting Page Down. No longer works; I have to either hit Tab again or ESC. Intended? I would prefer Page Down still worked.
Intended. The previous behavior was that way because console and score display made each other completely unreadable; if you press page down, you want to read the console, and the shading makes that now possible without disabling the scores.
Phytotron wrote:2) Very strange. Player_random_color will be set to 1 on each launch. Only happens when I have the following settings_visual.cfg in place, located in /Application Support/Armagetron Advanced/config. Doesn't happen with previous versions, obviously.
Heh. Turns out 1 is the default value in code that only gets overwritten in the default config files, and the location for that has been moved to settings_visual.cfg. So by not including it in yours, you let it use the code default. I changed the code default, of course.
Phytotron wrote:- What's the intended purpose of the "simple trails" option?
Twofold. They were implemented during tests with odd crashes on some configurations and fixed those crashes (they may be fixed now during elimination of a different error, but I can't say). And then, of course, they're simpler and may give the one or other player an FPS boost.
Phytotron wrote:Also, so now they're officially trails, not walls? Inconsistent with dir_wall.png, too.
They always were both. After ten years, I just got sick of writing 'walls' every time. wallswallswalls.
Phytotron wrote:- I think "toggle spectator" should not be at the bottom of the menu list under all the instachats. Too buried.
Agreed and moved. I never was happy with the instachat config anyway, I always forget which instachat is which when I set the keyboard config for it. Those really need to be moved together.
Phytotron wrote:Speaking of buried, just wanna reiterate that I think the Global Keyboard Configuration should be relocated under Player Setup, at the same level as and listed above the Player Settings.
By what logic? They don't have anything to do with players. I can mirror them there for convenience, of course.
Phytotron wrote:- Setting "toggle fullscreen" to a normal letter makes it impossible to switch while chat or console are up. An old thing, since it used to be F (right?), but was reminded of it. And why is it now N?
F was used for something else. And they're completely unbound now.
Phytotron wrote:- I think Free and Fixed cam should either be disabled by default and/or reordered to the back of the camera switching cycle. Another old thing, but it rears its head in the little mini-tutorial (which I just tried for the first time) as you change camera as instructed but then are immediately instructed to start turning or glancing again. Might not be as relevant in the new tutorial. Regardless, Smart -> Custom -> Incam, I think.
I'll probably disable the fixed cam by default in the player config and yeah, the cameras should be arranged so that the first couple of switches get you to the good ones and you don't have to wrap around.
Phytotron wrote:Also, both V and C change camera? Why?
View and Camera, and both keys were free.
Phytotron wrote:- The responsiveness of the turning is really poor out of the box, even for a novice. It seems to be the fact that you've set the default speed factor to -2, so the effect of CYCLE_DELAY_TIMEBASED gets increased as well, yeah?
Yeah. We've changed that now. The real tutorials use default speed factor and just slow down if you can't manage them at default speed a couple of times.
Phytotron wrote:Why not just put the speed factor back to 0 and return the default speed to 10 instead? (I still don't know why it got moved up to 30 sometime in the middle of 0.2.8.)
Default speed is now down to 20 and acceleration is up. You're right that the balance between the two was off, but the old default speed of 10 just feels slow. You know it's supposed to be roughly m/s, semi-suppored by the bike dimensions? So 10 would be 37 km/h or 23 mph. You can go faster on a bicycle.
Phytotron wrote:For that matter, why have "Speed" apply to the speed factor at all?
You mean the menu entry? That one should simply increase the overall speed, as if the clock was accelerated/slowed. The various detailed speed settings are harder to tune, and adding them in the menu with some fixed preset values would make it impossible to set them freely on the console; every time you activate the menu, they'd revert to one of the fixed values (and not even the closest one with the current code, though that can be fixed, obviously.)

And yeah, when I say 'now', I mean the 0.4 snapshots, and that's where the fixes went, too.

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Re: Mac 0.2.9_alpha_r1373: scoreboard & player_random_color,

Post by Phytotron »

Z-Man wrote:console shading
Meant to mention that's a welcome addition. I use alpha blending almost never, but at least now stuff is readable if and when I do.
Heh. Turns out 1 is the default value in code that only gets overwritten in the default config files, and the location for that has been moved to settings_visual.cfg. So by not including it in yours, you let it use the code default. I changed the code default, of course.
To be clear on that last sentence, are you referring to the change already in place (that it defaults to 1), or that you've changed it going forward in future versions (that it will default to 0)?

A lot of stuff moved to settings_visual, I see now. Gonna have to peruse the rest of the configs.
Z-Man wrote:
Phytotron wrote:Speaking of buried, just wanna reiterate that I think the Global Keyboard Configuration should be relocated under Player Setup, at the same level as and listed above the Player Settings.
By what logic? They don't have anything to do with players. I can mirror them there for convenience, of course.
Because everything within the Global configuration except maybe "reload textures" is still a player interaction with the game, though obviously not gameplay control. It seems more intuitive to me that it be like:

Player Setup
Global Keyboard Configuration
Player 1 Settings
Player 2 Settings
etc.


I look at MAME, for example, and it goes:

Input (General)
User Interface
[equivalent to Arma's GKC]
Player 1 Controls
Player 2 Controls
Player etc. Controls...
Other Controls


Makes more sense to me. And I can't tell you how many times I've encountered people who didn't even know Global Keyboard Configuration existed, or what's in it.

Like I also said, I think everything under Misc. Stuff could probably be better located elsewhere. ::shrug:: New version, may as well tidy it up is my thinking, especially with the efforts with the tutorial and stuff in helping novices along.
Phytotron wrote:Also, both V and C change camera? Why?
View and Camera, and both keys were free.
I got the initials, heh. I just wondered why both, especially since they're right next to each other. I suppose it does increase the likelihood that bashing in that area you'll hit one of them.
Z-Man wrote:
Phytotron wrote:Why not just put the speed factor back to 0 and return the default speed to 10 instead? (I still don't know why it got moved up to 30 sometime in the middle of 0.2.8.)
Default speed is now down to 20 and acceleration is up. You're right that the balance between the two was off, but the old default speed of 10 just feels slow. You know it's supposed to be roughly m/s, semi-supported by the bike dimensions? So 10 would be 37 km/h or 23 mph. You can go faster on a bicycle.
I suppose, and it does. It never felt slow in older versions for some reason, but I dunno. Maybe everyone's just used to going faster now.
Z-Man wrote:
Phytotron wrote:For that matter, why have "Speed" apply to the speed factor at all?
You mean the menu entry? That one should simply increase the overall speed, as if the clock was accelerated/slowed.
Yeah, I realise that. It also affects turn delay, making those silly tight doublebind 180's when the value is increased (even with _DELAY 0.1, _DELAY_TIMEBASED 1, and DOUBLBIND_BONUS 1)—the opposite effect of the poor responsiveness—something I was hoping to avoid as well with the player just changing cycle speed and accel. :) Plus, it would give the novice user more control over tweaking their gameplay experience without having to use the console or edit files they may not even know exist.
The various detailed speed settings are harder to tune, and adding them in the menu with some fixed preset values would make it impossible to set them freely on the console; every time you activate the menu, they'd revert to one of the fixed values (and not even the closest one with the current code, though that can be fixed, obviously.)
Alas, OK.

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Re: Mac 0.2.9_alpha_r1373: scoreboard & player_random_color,

Post by Jonathan »

Phytotron wrote:And I can't tell you how many times I've encountered people who didn't even know Global Keyboard Configuration existed, or what's in it.

Like I also said, I think everything under Misc. Stuff could probably be better located elsewhere. ::shrug:: New version, may as well tidy it up is my thinking, especially with the efforts with the tutorial and stuff in helping novices along.
I agree with this. Being a menu rat, I was aware of most settings, but nonetheless it was fairly hard to find them again later. Especially the Misc Stuff. It's just not intuitive, even if it's technically quick to access.
Phytotron wrote:
Z-Man wrote:
Phytotron wrote:Why not just put the speed factor back to 0 and return the default speed to 10 instead? (I still don't know why it got moved up to 30 sometime in the middle of 0.2.8.)
Default speed is now down to 20 and acceleration is up. You're right that the balance between the two was off, but the old default speed of 10 just feels slow. You know it's supposed to be roughly m/s, semi-supported by the bike dimensions? So 10 would be 37 km/h or 23 mph. You can go faster on a bicycle.
I suppose, and it does. It never felt slow in older versions for some reason, but I dunno. Maybe everyone's just used to going faster now.
I didn't have a problem with that myself. I do recall trying the game with someone in the 0.2.6.0 days. He wasn't quite satisfied with the sensation of speed, or lack thereof. He ended up increasing the speed factor, which effectively killed acceleration at the time. :(

Also, 10 m/s is exactly 36 km/h. I wish my bike (not specifically made for speed) didn't begin to lead its own life in the 40+ km/h regime. Or maybe I'm just not accustomed to that mode.
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Re: Mac 0.2.9_alpha_r1373: scoreboard & player_random_color,

Post by Phytotron »

Yeah, 10 feels slow now, especially with a -3 arena, but for some reason my recollection is of it not. ::shrug:: Of course, it's all relative. Shrunkland has a base speed of 10 with an accel of 15, but the arena is -5, so it feels relatively faster (and near ideal for my taste). Distance traversed over time elapsed, eh. Breakfast in Hell and Bebop in Harlem have a base speed of just 6 and 6.5 in -3 and -4 arenas, respectively, but the high acceleration keeps the average speed up—way up, even. Also, the acceleration in all three servers is augmented with a somewhat higher _WALL_NEAR (8 and 10), which also keeps the speed up without always having to be grinding directly on a wall.
Jonathan wrote:He ended up increasing the speed factor, which effectively killed acceleration at the time. :(
Good point, a key thing I neglected to mention. Even with speed factor at zero, with the SPEED 30 and ACCEL 10 there's very little meaningful acceleration, and less sensation thereof; just seems more or less static. Glad that's been adjusted. I've always found it feels best when the acceleration value is at least equal to the speed value.

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Re: Mac 0.2.9_alpha_r1373: scoreboard & player_random_color,

Post by Z-Man »

Phytotron wrote:
Heh. Turns out 1 is the default value in code that only gets overwritten in the default config files, and the location for that has been moved to settings_visual.cfg. So by not including it in yours, you let it use the code default. I changed the code default, of course.
To be clear on that last sentence, are you referring to the change already in place (that it defaults to 1), or that you've changed it going forward in future versions (that it will default to 0)?
It was 1 and is 0 now.

I look at MAME, for example, and it goes:
Phytotron wrote:Input (General)
User Interface
[equivalent to Arma's GKC]
Player 1 Controls
Player 2 Controls
Player etc. Controls...
Other Controls
Yeah, maybe factoring out everything control related into its own menu is a good idea. Main reason it's the way it is is that it was easier to code.

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Re: Mac 0.2.9_alpha_r1373: scoreboard & player_random_color,

Post by Phytotron »

I just noticed that the tooltips (I believe that's the correct term—the notes that display at the bottom of the screen when highlighting a menu item) come up a lot more quickly now. This is welcome in almost all instances, which would be while perusing the menu, but there's one instance where it's a problem: While looking at the server browser and highlighting a server, the tooltip can sometimes, albeit infrequently, obscure the server options/description, especially when there are several people in the server—especially those displaying their authentication and/or with long clan tags—and/or if there's a lenthy-ish description.

I don't suppose there's any way to set a longer duration before pop-up while at the server browser?

Very minor, but I thought worth mentioning.

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Re: Mac 0.2.9_alpha_r1373: scoreboard & player_random_color,

Post by Z-Man »

Phytotron wrote:I don't suppose there's any way to set a longer duration before pop-up while at the server browser?
Taken care of. The tooltip is now displayed together with the server info dump and does not overlap, and if the combined text gets too long, the server lists shrinks a bit to make room.

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Re: Mac 0.2.9_alpha_r1373: scoreboard & player_random_color,

Post by Phytotron »

Just to double-check, is this the most recent snapshot for Macs? There aren't any Mac builds in the '2012' folder on Sourceforge, so I ask.


Also, as mentioned elsewhere I'm temporarily using this G4 Mac Pro, which has a 2003 model A1038 20" Apple Cinema Display, 1680x1050 resolution. Well, this sucks for playing Arma due to what I guess would qualify as ghosting; not that it's the worst I've seen (e.g., the G4 iMac lamp is definitely worse; totally unplayable). Nothing you can do about that, obviously.

But, something else I noticed. I copied over my whole Application Support folder from my old hard drive. So, of course I had to change the display setting/screen mode to match the resolution of this screen. All the graphics look normal, including the console and tool tip text. But I noticed that the menu text and scoreboard, and possibly HUD text (upper-right) appear to be jeeyuust a bit outside...I mean, slightly stretched horizontally. A couple screenshots, with a bit of console text to compare:
screenshot_3.png
screenshot_4.png
Just wondering if that's typical or something funky.


As an aside, shame the title image gets stretched, too. Any way to display it in its original dimensions with pillarboxing, or letterboxing in the reverse case?
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Re: Mac 0.2.9_alpha_r1373: scoreboard & player_random_color,

Post by Jonathan »

What you see is typical. Too typical when playing many older games in widescreen, in fact. There's a lot of stretching going on, but at least the 3D view is usually okay. You get used to it.

Have fun with that older LCD. Thankfully modern LCDs (at least most of them) are so fast that the lack of flickering is the main cause of any motion blur that's left.
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