0.2.8.3_rc3 available! Report bugs here.

[Z-Man]

About time, I guess. Sorry, that sinewaw bug sort of put me into Armagetronad depression mode. While I hope we can find a solution, that's off the list for 0.2.8.3 now. Also, bazaarmagetron has been kicked back to life (for future reference: it's using bzr 1.2, bzr-svn 0.4.8, and svn 1.4.4 with the metze python bindings patch. All later svn versions I tried resulted in crashes, all later versions of the bzr stuff in divergent branches or other horrible things.)

So, I'm just going to tag this thing in svn later today and do the usual builds.

[Z-Man]

Well, what do you know? SF revamped their file release system. Again. For upload convenience, it's certainly an improvement, but for downloads? You'll see if you grab rc3 from here, feedback appreciated.
Or just go fetch it from Launchpad.

[teen]

Well, what do you know?

[Phytotron]

Haven't used anything between 0.2.8.2.1 and this rc3, so I don't know where this might've kicked in. And if this doesn't belong in this topic, by all means, someone move it to a new one.

The subject is camera behavior. There are actually two issues, one older which occurs in both versions, one newer. Both are related to a custom top-down camera with the following settings:

Code: Select all

_CUSTOM_PITCH -90
_CUSTOM_BACK 0
_CUSTOM_RISE 20
_CUSTOM_TURN_SPEED 0

The behaviour applies to either/both one's personal Custom cam, or a Server Custom camera with those settings. (Shrunkland uses these settings.)

First the older issue. We'll use the example of the above settings being Server-side, while one has his own or default Custom cam. In this instance, when cycling through cameras, one would cycle from Smart > Custom > Server Custom (with all others disabled). Doing this, the top-down camera and arena will line up at proper 90° angles. However, if one disables Custom Cam (or gives it top-down settings), the it'll go directly from Smart > Top-Down. What results from this is often a crooked view. The only way to avoid this is to either wait until the Smart Cam is lined up directly behind the cycle before switching (almost never happens, shouldn't have to anyway), or to have Custom in between, as above. Obviously, most people aren't going to have only the two enabled and will indeed hit the Custom cam first, but it still seems to me it shouldn't do that. And even in that case, if the turn speed of the custom cam isn't immediate, as you'll see in the recording, it'll still go crooked. Besides that, it can also be forced to happen (including accidentally) while in top-down, by doing something with glancing that's more easily demonstrated than explained, so it's in the recording.

Now the second, newer issue. While using top-down. Originally, when one would hit a glance key, the camera would stay top-down and rotate 90° around the cycle in that direction. Now, when a glance is pressed, it jumps into what I first thought was my custom glance mode. But, this happens with Custom Glance either enabled or disabled; likewise for Custom Cam. I even deleted my custom cam settings from var/autoexec.cfg and the config/settings.cfg file in the app "package contents" to do a little process of elimination (wondering if it might somehow be going to the fixed cam), but apparently there's still a custom cam that it'll default to in there somewhere? It was further back than any of those custom cam settings.

The one thing that remains the same between both versions is that holding the glance in one direction while turning, then letting go, will turn the top-down cam in that direction. That's good; don't change that. (It's doing this halfway that causes the grid to go crooked.) I demonstrated this in the recordings, as well.

I did all recordings in a local game using the CAMERA_SERVER_CUSTOM settings as above, placed in var/autoexec.cfg. I deleted my personal custom cam settings from var/autoexec.cfg, but left in the default ones found in each app's respective config/settings.cfg file. (I noticed there are some differences between the two, but as mentioned above, this happens regardless of whether they're in there or not.)


Obviously, the original behaviour, staying within top-down while glancing, is preferred. A fix that would prevent the crooking of the grid would be nice, too.

[Phytotron]

By the way, what is "Setting TOS to LOWDELAY failed?" Message when I first connect to the server list.

Only result from searching the forum is this http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 55&t=19405, which looks to be entirely unrelated.

[Z-Man]

Code: Select all

_CUSTOM_TURN_SPEED 0

Well, the turn behaviour you describe is in accordance to this. This says "keep the camera pointed in the direction it was, at all times". And switching camera modes doesn't change the direction. I'll see where you're coming from and check whether there's a good spot to make an exception for the zero turn speed case.

And yes, there are separate glancing settings now: CAMERA_GLANCE_BACK, CAMERA_GLANCE_RISE, and so on. You can override them with the server custom glance settings via CAMERA_OVERRIDE_CUSTOM_GLANCE in all modes and CAMERA_OVERRIDE_CUSTOM_GLANCE_SERVER_CUSTOM specifically for the server custom camera (you'd want that one to be set in the new Shrunkland config).

The TOS warning is that, just a warning. I removed it. The comment beside it said it should be removed later anyway, and it's non-translatable. And really, I don't expect changing the TOS has any effect in real world networks.

[Phytotron]

To perhaps clarify, _TURN_SPEED 0 was deliberate—it is indeed meant to keep the camera static as you turn. It was meant to be something like the original Tron arcade game, see. Don't change that. That one could then reorient it by 90° by holding glance, turning, then letting go is also good.

So I take it you're saying _TURN_SPEED 0 is the cause for the first crooked arena problem because it won't turn to straighten itself out between camera views; it just gets stuck wherever it was at the moment one switches? OK. I would've figured the camera just reset completely when switched. ::shrug::

And then the second problem: the fact that pressing glance, rather than simply rotating 90° around the cycle, instead now changes out to a different glance camera—that may be due to it jumping to the new default _CUSTOM_GLANCE settings? (I didn't even notice those.) So, the server-side fix would be CAMERA_OVERRIDE_CUSTOM_GLANCE_SERVER_CUSTOM 1. Yeah?

And, for my own personal settings, custom glance is no longer based on my CAMERA_CUSTOM_X settings, but instead uses your default CAMERA_GLANCE_X settings. So if I liked how it was, I need to place CAMERA_OVERRIDE_CUSTOM_GLANCE 1 in my autoexec.cfg.

[Z-Man]

The turn_speed behaviour is unchanged. What I did change now is the switch behavior, when you switch to the custom cam and the turn speed is zero, it aligns itself to the cycle. Once. Glancing behaviour is unchanged.

And then the second problem: the fact that pressing glance, rather than simply rotating 90° around the cycle, instead now changes out to a different glance camera—that may be due to it jumping to the new default _CUSTOM_GLANCE settings? (I didn't even notice those.) So, the server-side fix would be CAMERA_OVERRIDE_CUSTOM_GLANCE_SERVER_CUSTOM 1. Yeah?

Yes.

And, for my own personal settings, custom glance is no longer based on my CAMERA_CUSTOM_X settings, but instead uses your default CAMERA_GLANCE_X settings. So if I liked how it was, I need to place CAMERA_OVERRIDE_CUSTOM_GLANCE 1 in my autoexec.cfg.

No, that one will be overridden by server commands, and would make glancing use server custom settings anyway. Instead, you make a copy of your CAMERA_CUSTOM_* (except for the turn speed) settings and replace _CUSTOM_ with _GLANCE_. You may like it to set CAMERA_GLANCE_RISE higher than CAMERA_CUSTOM_RISE; that way, you get a better overview while glancing.

[Phytotron]

1) Weird sound activity whereby the engine sound frequently makes a slurring, wowa, "slowing drastically" sound, but while accelerating, then corrects. Sounds sort of like a record getting slowed by hand then let go. Disorienting and nauseating. Also, I always hear the cycle expl sound at the end of a round; don't recall that happening before, but maybe it did—remind me.

2) You had to know I would find this. I've run across several others, too, but here's this one:

[Z-Man]

Woops about 2, will be fixed.

About 1, does the sound stutter or does it keep sounding 'smooth' even during those slowdowns?

You're mostly testing on the new shrunkland clone, right?

[Phytotron]

It doesn't stutter, in the sense of being intermittent or breaking up. It's more of a slur, although not "smooth" like a portamento. It seems like it's perhaps related to the TURNFACTOR slowdown, like maybe it's dropping off too much then has trouble catching back up. Likewise for braking; see below.

I'm "testing" in various servers. It does seem to be exaggerated in Shrunkland (which is also basically my local game settings, with some tweaks), especially the first few rounds. The most extreme I've experienced is in that (awful) Yellow Submarine server. There it seems to happen almost every turn, especially with these excessive button masher types, to the point I checked to see if TURNFACTOR had been set lower (it's not). There's the same effect with brake usage, most obvious with these players who are constantly using them on and off. It seems like the higher ping I get there may also emphasize it? Like, the audio warbliness that comes from lag; the audio companion to the video catching up.

Varying the Sound settings doesn't seem to have an effect, with respect to quality, buffer, or sound sources.

It really changes the playing experience, plays tricks on you. I don't recall it doing this is previous versions. Oddity.

Oh, and the extra cycle expl sound actually happens right before the new round, not after.