New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

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Phytotron
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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by Phytotron »

Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure it does a great deal to FPS, actually. I'll do some back-and-forth comparison a little more when I get a chance. It's mainly that momentary freeze at the start of the round that's the problem. I don't recall it ever happening with other models (Sark ship, Tank, Recognizer, etc.). I'll plug in my old HDD and try out some of those later, too. Has anyone else had that happen? Perhaps a developer may chime in; might be something they recognize—if it's thought that it may be a bug or poor handling or something rather than just poly count, for example. I suppose I could make a recording if necessary.

I don't think I've got anything unusual going on, though—I forgot to also mention, I was using version 0.2.8.2, and OS 10.4.11, if that's relevant. Too bad my G3 iMac fritzed out or I would've been giving you an even more pedestrian review.

Point is, you may or may not want to hold off on reducing poly count until that's checked out.

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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by Jonathan »

Speaking of which... I've once had some C++ code perform rather poorly. When I profiled the thing it turned out istream >> float did two memory allocations every single time, which was bad enough to dominate total execution time. Must've been either on 10.4.11 or some recent 10.5. Maybe this is the problem here, even though there's 'only' some thousands of floats? Or perhaps it's another istream thing?
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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by edd »

I have reduced the poly count anyway and altered the texture map:

Texture map now 240 K

Cycle model is now 485 Polygons and 240 K

It increases the frame rate so it should help anyway. It's a bit more clunky looking but this is lost in the game I think.

Edd
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modified cycle and texture map
(197.06 KiB) Downloaded 145 times

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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by edd »

Some images of the latest version. I will post full movie pack soon.


edd
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AA7A.jpg
AA3A.jpg
AA2A.jpg

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Phytotron
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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by Phytotron »

Alright, I did a little more comparison using the cycle I already had (i.e., not the latest). This was in a local game, so me and AI only sans any button-mashing kids, with Shrunkland settings (very FPS friendly) and my own simplistic moviepack and detail settings. I won't detail them since I think it's more relative performance of the cycle models we're looking at, with all else equal.

Strange shit to me, but possibly "expected behavior" according to the devs.

With the default cycle model I'd start out at (an absurd and useless) 450fps, then average, I dunno, maybe around 100. With this cycle model, it starts around 45fps and will then ramp up to an average between 60-80fps. Obviously 60-80 is very playable (I would've loved it back before 0.2.8.x), but there's still a hit which I might think would be compounded in other servers. Plus, that strange behavior of it starting low.


Now, as for the freeze at the beginning of the round (at "Creating grid"), even with just 4 total cycles, it would unfreeze, catch up on any buffered text or other actions, and begin the round at the '2' in the countdown. By the time I got it up to 6-7 total cycles, the delay would be so long that by the time it unfroze my cycle would be imminently crashing into the wall in front of it. Above that and it would unfreeze already crashed.

I compared this to a few other high KB and poly-count models I have on hand, such as Sark's ship and another of edd's cycles ([url=ttp://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=2112]this one[/url]). Same issue, more or less. With the default cycle model, with 22 AI cycles, it will hang up only slighty, but still begin right as the 3 turns to the 2.

Thing is, I don't recall this happening on my older and considerably slower computer (iMac G3, OSX.2.8, 600MHz, 256 RAM, ATI Rage 128 Ultra). Key word being "recall." It very well could have but I just didn't notice or presently remember.


So, anyone want me to make a recording?

Speaking of which, while doing all this I was able to exacerbate another problem that I think is at least partially related to this (http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... =49&t=4561) and am thinking of bumping that with a recording. Unless I'm right and no one gives a damn about that sort of thing anymore.

Speaking of which, I found a link to this AA wiki page which claims "Use the helper application included with the game." Erm, it was not included in the 0.2.8.2.1 version I recently downloaded. And, is that recorder still viable? I never used it under OSX.2.8 because nemo didn't design it to work on that version, so I went through the hassle of the Terminal command line shit. But, now I've got 10.4.11, I figured I would use it.

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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by Z-Man »

I'm pretty sure I packed the recording app into 0.2.8.3_rc3, but no recording needed: no cycle model related stuff is included in it anyway. It probably is the issue Jonathan pointed out, combined with the fact that we load the cycle model again and again. It should be possible to avoid that; even though you're the first to report problems with it, it's bad mojo.

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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by Phytotron »

OK, but 0.2.8.2.1 is the "official stable version," correct? Shouldn't the recorder be bundled with that, if the wiki claims it and you presumably want the average player to be using that version rather than an rc? Whatever, it's your deal, but seems logical to me.

I seem to have been the first and only person to report several things (all of which, to my recollection, have turned out to indeed be something, even if it wasn't initially believed). I wonder why that is. I used to think it might just be some odd combination of my specific computer and OS version. But now I've replaced them both, and the last issue(s) I left off with just prior to quitting playing is still a problem (the "stick&slip" variations referenced above), and there are possibly a couple new ones. Bad mojo, eh. :/

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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by edd »

Once again, very good feedback, I have also experienced the delays when using the movie packs, and in particular most.ase models. The latest version of this cycle is much smaller, but still big compared to the default cycle. I have to say though that I am (from a development angle) more interested in the look of the game and I enjoy making new cycles and movie packs. I think also though that as ugly as I find the default cycle and textures I still love playing the game. Slightly off topic, but I introduced my Nice and Nephew to the game last week and they had never heard of TRON (I must of slipped up there), but they were instantly addicted and we spent the rest of the day playing LAN tournaments. So whatever it looks like it's still a great game.

I will as usual tweak the cycle model to try to improve performance and maybe add a recommended minimum spec or something similar. My MacBook Pro runs in beautifully at 1920 x 1200 with reflections and lots of cycles on the grid although I haven't tried this over the internet yet but then I always get wiped out in a microsecond any way :)

Edd

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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by Z-Man »

Regarding the recording app: well, I guess 0.2.8.2.1 was built by me when I knew even less about Mac building than I do now, and I just forgot to bundle the thing. Can't fix that now properly, I'm afraid; 0.2.8.2.1 is a very tricky version to build. Besides, no, I personally prefer receiving bug report recordings with whatever the latest development snapshot is. That makes it easier to apply the fix to the current source once it's developed. And that's the main raison d'être of debug recordings.

And you probably have a sort of Reality Distortion Field. One that makes odd bugs happen.

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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by Phytotron »

Edd, I think you should put up two versions of any cycle model you create: One high quality for looks, one low(er) for playability. I'd also like to see all your models consolidated somewhere, if not already. I was also wondering, do you do requests? I've had this idea forever that just might pique your interest.
Z-Man wrote:And you probably have a sort of Reality Distortion Field. One that makes odd bugs happen.
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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by edd »

That makes sense, having two versions, I'll also repost as many as I can in .blender format too. Funny you should ask about my other models, I have just been in touch with 'Angel' from armagetron.co.uk/ and asked if I could put all my stuff on his site. So that should be done my the end of next week. I just have to make a few new screen grabs and put things in order.

As for requests, very much so. Let me know what you'd like and I'll try to make it.

edd

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Re: New lo poly TRON Legacy lightcycle

Post by ender »

Post that movie pack edd!!! As always, you rule!

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