Breakfast in Hell has changed its name

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Lucifer
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Breakfast in Hell has changed its name

Post by Lucifer »

And it's not my fault!

Well, actually, it is. It is now called "The Crack Pipe"

Same settings, still waiting some tweaks for the new version and so forth, but new name. :)
Last edited by Lucifer on Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Walking Tree »

has that got something to do with
http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=2448
and 'Debconf on crack' ?
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Post by Lucifer »

No, well, yes, well, I don't know. I dreamed up the name before that post, if that's what you were wondering, and there's little doubt the name I was tossing around in my head influenced that post. Does that answer your question?

This is part of the "I don't want to be Breakfast anymore" thread, you know, where eggcozy decided that Breakfast = x, but Swampy and I were working with the understanding that Breakfast = y, and x != y. Breakfast is eggcozy's name and I never intended to hijack it, and even if he never returns to the game, I still think I need to make some tracks from it.

I don't have a replacement name for the genre yet, and Swampy and I are still tossing around, because we're still in agreement what we want out of our servers. In the meantime, following Swampland in 0.2.7.1s model, I went with an independent name that I happen to like a lot, Swampy can drop the "Breakfast in" part of Shrunkland if he'd like, and for a genre we can go nameless otherwise.

I'll remove the (formerly named Breakfast in Hell) part from the master server list in a couple of weeks, after everyone's managed to notice the change that needs to notice it.
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Post by Lucifer »

For Your_mom. Here's a picture of what I was thinking. The lines are kinda crooked and don't line up, but you get the idea. Four extra chambers with little hallways to connect them to the main chamber, with spawn points in the new chambers. Put like two in each one, facing away from each other (towards the main hall).

I don't know how they'll work out in actual play, but I was thinking they'd give everyone a brief interval to get their thoughts together, or they have to start out right away by killing the nearest person to clear the room. Then the chambers would give folks a place to relax a bit, take a few breaths, then go back in and fight.

Because of the wall sizes, I don't think people would use them to hide, but they would provide some terrain advantages to the player who figures out how to use them that way.

When we get map rotation without requiring the master resource server, I'm thinking variations of thise would be pretty cool. Like have the inverted cross, and then put a hall around it that only has two small entrances. Or have just one entrance to the hall and spawn the kill zone close enough to it to block it right away.

It might be cool to have a maze that can be reached from the main fighting chamber.

Anyway, this is what I was thinking. No need to get carried away when we're stil so early in map support. :)
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Post by Walking Tree »

Lucifer wrote:No, well, yes, well, I don't know. I dreamed up the name before that post, if that's what you were wondering, and there's little doubt the name I was tossing around in my head influenced that post. Does that answer your question?

This is part of the "I don't want to be Breakfast anymore" thread
that answers the question all right.
Is that the post about swampland not having 'true' breakfast settings etc ?
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Post by Lucifer »

Walking Tree wrote: that answers the question all right.
Is that the post about swampland not having 'true' breakfast settings etc ?
Um, sure. I should qualify that a bit. See, here's how it happened and what I was thinking.

For some reason, my client at some point wasn't showing me Armagoshdarnish, which I had really started to enjoy playing. It would always poll as unavailable. The problem got fixed, but only after I became hooked on Breakfast Burrito, which later renamed to Breakfast of Champions (and is allegedly the original name of that server). But BoC wasn't reliable, it would frequently go down for hours, sometimes days at a time, and with ish not showing properly on my server browser there wasn't any place left that I really enjoyed playing.

So I made a clone. Called it Breakfast of Demons, later renamed to Breakfast in Hell. Started with eggcozy's settings. I ran a few variations, you know, a team server, and the cool mass destruction server (in-cam only). It was never intended to replace BoC, only to serve as a backup on the occasions that BoC was unavailable. Decompyler ran a clone too, because my internet connection is crap and people didn't like the lag on my server. Then I stumbled across swampland, noticed that I really liked the settings and asked Swampy where he got them. Turned out he was cloning BoC too.

So at this point I started wondering how eggcozy would feel if we all ran our clones and started doing things to differentiate them from one another. Decompyler already had and people were already saying "It's not Breakfast" over there. So I started wondering where the line was to be drawn to define Breakfast and Not Breakfast. Then Decompyler disappeared and his server with him, leaving it just me, Swampy, and eggcozy. Egg's server was down for awhile too, so just Swampy's and mine were the ones left, and are still the ones left.

I made the website right before Decompyler disappeared, and he has/had an account there. As did eggcozy. I used some code Decompyler sent me to parse stat files and started running the stat page for all Breakfast servers, and there was some unity. Not a lot, we're all fiercely independent types, so it's more of a loose affiliation.

And I started wondering who owned the name Breakfast. The players had adopted it for themselves as something of a personal identity thing (the way women with large boobs depend on their boobs as part of their self identity). It had been a cool name that eggcozy dreamed up, and an armagetron phenomena that originated with him, so he was kinda authoritative on the matter. But being independent and respecting others' independence, he kept quiet and just played the game. (I don't think I ever heard him say a bad thing about anybody's server until right before he took off, when he let it all out) So what happens if eggcozy tries to assert ownership of it? You know, completely? The way Thompson did with mp3, first let everyone have it and do what they want, then assert ownership and take it. On the one hand, it was his and I wanted to make sure I respected that at all times, but on the other hand the community adopted it. And swampy and I had been tossing around ideas to try to milk some money out of the players (in exchange for real value, I might add, we're not crooks). If anything happened there, you know, if it turned into real money, eggcozy could make some serious trouble if he wanted. On the other hand, he's a cool guy, and I'd never try to screw him out of anything. I'm not that kind of guy either, so I didn't think any trouble would happen. But he never expressed interest in it anyway, and I had a feeling that he wouldn't get involved in a commercial pursuit, and I did ask him directly but his answer was evasive. Leaving me wondering where he sat.

In the end, eggcozy asserted the authority to define what Breakfast was, and some of the regular players (including a couple of admins) disagreed with his definition. So at this point, I figure there's no reason to fight over a name, and even though he's gone, there's still the whole issue of who owns it. We can all still assert ownership of it if we want, but I'm not really interested in doing that. I'd just as soon come up with an even cooler name and go with it and we can put Breakfast of Champions on the pile with the original goshdarn and whatever other legendary servers there have been, and I think we should respect eggcozy's contribution to the game and make a happy memory out of what could turn into an ugly memory. And we can't forget that both Swampland and the Crack Pipe have very strong roots in eggcozy's server, regardless of what disagreements might exist. So it boils down to a simple question of growth. Do we want to grow as a group, or degenerate and factionalize over a silly name? I see growth in the name change, and new possibilities opening up when I stand on my own feet and declare my server is mine and have no current loyalty to conforming to any definition of good gameplay other than what my players and myself agree is what makes it fun for all of us to play together.

So that's how we wind up with Breakfast in Hell changing its name.

So, to replace the part of Breakfast that identifies a genre, I'm thinking the new name shouldn't identify a genre, instead it should identify a common set of values that server admins respect that creates the atmosphere that exists on our servers that makes people want to play there and have fun doing it. In that vein, the new name won't reflect server settings at all, it'll reflect the attitudes of the players and the admin(s), so it doesn't even have to be part of the server name anymore. Granted, a cool name can show lots of cool permutations of server names that can be very entertaining, but I also remember how confusing it was when people knew their favorite server only by the name "Breakfast" and there were several different versions using that name. So instead I'm thinking of just having a line in the MOTD, or having something between rounds to remind players that this server is affiliated with that server over there, and the website will reflect whose servers are whose and so forth. And the name becomes less important, merely a convenience to distinguish preferred servers, which is how I'd always used the name Breakfast anyway.
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Your_mom
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Post by Your_mom »

heres the map its still a cross but i can change it to not be if you want
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can i post .xml now?
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Post by Walking Tree »

Wow, long post.
so basically: a community, a culture (Breakfast) develops differently from what it's founder had imagined. suddenly the founder cracks up, tells you you're dealing a totally different culture under his culture's name and leaves the scene. This leaves the community in a nasty position because if they continue, the founder could come back and cause trouble. The community survives by continuing, but honouring the founder by not using his name any longer.

and, how (???) where you planning to make money ?
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Post by Your_mom »

oops , ill edit this and post the fixed version when i get a chance
ok got it fixed thanks nemo for binging your site back up :)

this is why i was bugging nemo about his site, the map preview is very usefull
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ok fixed
ok fixed
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inverted cross-0.6.2 oops.png
thanks to nemo you can see problems in advance
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Last edited by Your_mom on Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Lucifer »

Ok, that's cool. It doesn't look totally broke, so I put it up anyway.

Also wrote a little python script to modify everytime.cfg at regular intervals (well, it writes everytime.cfg from a template file anyway, you have to put it as a cronjob, which I have done). The only noteable thing it does is change the map. :)

So, every 5 minutes, the map changes. There are only two maps right now, though.
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Post by dlh »

You are running beta1 so this may be fixed in beta2:

Players could drive through some of the rim walls. One cycle would start right on a rim wall, so it may be a problem with the spawn points in the new map.

@z-man: After a few setting changes, I got the "Unknown setting messages" I posted a bug about. The two other servers I got this message on also had settings being changed (Jonathan's server and the server with the "Sudden Death" changes).
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Post by dlh »

The problem was that the map never changed on my client. I got the "Unknown setting MAP_URI + MAP_FILE" message. So it just appeared like I was driving through the walls.

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Post by Lucifer »

nemostultae wrote:The problem was that the map never changed on my client. I got the "Unknown setting MAP_URI + MAP_FILE" message. So it just appeared like I was driving through the walls.
Hmmm, I built it with beta2 sources. Why is it reporting itself as beta1? Did it actually build with beta1 sources? *confused*
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more screenshots of bad craziness

Post by Raoul Duke »

voila. these were taken in crack pipe about 30 minutes ago. aka monday around 10 30 PM central time. I use beta 2.
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more bad craziness

Post by Raoul Duke »

look above for bad craziness, then down below for more of it. (btw, sorry for double post =\ )
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i'm about to go through a wall there...
i'm about to go through a wall there...
4 trails through the wall, whoever that is speeding towards it goes through as well
4 trails through the wall, whoever that is speeding towards it goes through as well

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