Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

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Phytotron
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Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by Phytotron »

So, this nyx clan has taken it upon themselves to put up an unauthorised, fraudulent "clone" of Shrunkland. They're even claiming in the server description that it's owned by me. This is a lie.

This all stems from the exceptionalist belief by their conniving, craven "leader," named Z, that their clan ought to be allowed to take over Shrunkland as their unofficial clan server (some even wanted to get admin access), and that they should have the right to (mis)behave however they like and not have to abide by the same server rules and guidelines that every other player in the game is expected to follow. Clearly, this is unreasonable and flatly absurd. When I rejected this, they decided to throw a spiteful, sour-grapes temper tantrum and put up this server. Basically, "you let us take over Shrunkland and we'll do whatever the hell we want there, or we'll make our own."

From an ethical perspective, this qualifies as the brazen theft of the creative and technical work of Swampy, myself, and Gene. Of a server that, I suspect even in its present state, has been around longer than most members of that clan. Obviously, there's no copyrighting of server configs in Arma, and Armagetron's quasi-anarchic structure doesn't prohibit this sort of underhanded action. However, I thought it should be made known to the general community.


I don't want anyone to pull any sort of retributive actions against them, as that would be sinking to their level. I don't think any of the good Shrunkland regulars would do that, anyway. Nor am I going to get into some "you're either with me or against me" nonsense. Of course, I do advocate a boycott. Don't reward their unethical actions.

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by ZURD101 »

Last edited by ZURD101 on Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by sinewav »

:lol: LoL at the little clan kiddies.

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by A_Nub »

I was there when this all went down and Phytotron is blowing steam out his ass and making things up. Z took a person from another clan into the server to help him learn to play without running into walls, and shrunk is a great place to learn so with the low rubber. Yes on his clan forums he encourages his clan to play there so they can become better. This cannot be classified as a clan use of a server because it is not organized in any way. Phytotron, if anything you should be happy that people want to use your server and that they like it, not be butt hurt about it.
Last edited by A_Nub on Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by ~z~ »

All my points are outlined in the links Zurdy provided. Moreover, Gene said it was okay. -Thumbs up-

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by INW »

I think having our servers copyrighted would be the best way to solve problems like these in the future. As for now, there wasn't any written paperwork saying the Shrunkland server was copyrighted and all or any parts of it are owned only by Phytotron.

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by sinewav »

A_Nub wrote:Phytotron, if anything you should be happy that people want to use your server and that they like it, not be butt hurt about it.
There has never been a shortage of people wanting to play there. Ever. It's one of the best servers in Arma (because it's not some gimmicky HR/DF/?? ...whatever nonsense you kids make up). He can afford to be discriminating. And I think his moderation of that server is totally fair, even, and especially reasonable. The fact he even reached out to you guys to shorten the suspension is remarkable and a testament to his character. The average server admin is like me - ban and don't look back. :twisted:

Cloning the settings is one thing. But giving the clone the same name and color makes you guys look like the butt-hurt ones. "Whaaa we got banned so we're going to steal your players" Good luck with that. You should have just named it "nyx df" or something similar. Now your clan looks like a bunch of troublemakers. Well done on bringing negative attention to your group (Is it VcL2 - Electric Boogaloo?)
INW wrote:...there wasn't any written paperwork saying the Shrunkland server was copyrighted and all or any parts of it are owned only by Phytotron
So, you want to involve an international patent office? And, you obviously don't understand the basis of copyrights. :roll:

In my opinion, Arma servers are a type of intellectual property, and using another's work without permission is simply bad form. Of course, Arma has no central authority so there is really no way to stop cloning. But since (apparently) non-exclusive rights were given to gene, there is really nothing to do in this case.

Hey gene, this action of yours looks questionable. Care to explain yourself?

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by ~z~ »

sinewav wrote:Cloning the settings is one thing. But giving the clone the same name and color makes you guys look like the butt-hurt ones. "Whaaa we got banned so we're going to steal your players" Good luck with that. You should have just named it "nyx df" or something similar. Now your clan looks like a bunch of troublemakers. Well done on bringing negative attention to your group (Is it VcL2 - Electric Boogaloo?)
We credited Phytotron in the server_options. We made the server for those who cannot adhere to Phytotron's rules. I doubt any regulars will be "stolen".

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by sinewav »

~z~ wrote:We made the server for those who cannot adhere to Phytotron's rules.
You mean to be civilized and practice sensible sportsmanship? Oh. :roll:

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by Phytotron »

Just to reiterate, I tried to discuss the matter with Z over a number of weeks, perhaps a couple months. It was not based on a single event, was not a snap decision on my part. (And needless to say, nub is not a credible source.) Oh well.

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by Z-Man »

This reminds me of something...

Oh yes, Obsi's WW clones. It's the same thing, basically. A conflict of interest:
- Phytotron wants to run his servers a certain way and the players to behave a certain way. That is his right, and there is no doubt he's doing what he's doing to maximize the fun for everyone on this server.
- Nyx want to play with the shrunkland settings, but don't agree with the metagame rules there.
The creation of a clone is the natural and, in fact, only resolution of this conflict. There is no such thing as a copyright for game physics settings. There is a copyright for the actual settings files, but nothing prevents you from taking the settings change log your client produces to recreate server physics. Swampy was sharing the old config files for the explicit goal of letting people run clones.(*) Running clones is OK. Cloning is good. Some clones mutate over time and enrich the server landscape. And in my book, the server name ("Shrunkland: Diaspora" currently) is OK (I know Lucifer would disagree there). What is not OK is the SERVER_OPTIONS setting that falsely claims the server is owned by Phytotron. Correct that soon, please. And a clarifying MESSAGE_OF_DAY would be much appreciated, too.

(*) yeah, so in the relevant thread, he put them there for compy to use, but didn't explicitly state nobody else should. It certainly would have been nice to ask, but it's not required. Downloading stuff provided to you by the creator himself on the internet and using it is not theft.

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by ~z~ »

sinewav wrote:You mean to be civilized and practice sensible sportsmanship? Oh. :roll:
We have not criticized how you play the game, which gametypes, and what ingame manners you follow. We have not attacked you in any way. Why are you attacking us?
Z-Man wrote:(*) yeah, so in the relevant thread, he put them there for compy to use, but didn't explicitly state nobody else should. It certainly would have been nice to ask, but it's not required. Downloading stuff provided to you by the creator himself on the internet and using it is not theft.
We're using the output given by the client.
Z-Man wrote: What is not OK is the SERVER_OPTIONS setting that falsely claims the server is owned by Phytotron. Correct that soon, please. And a clarifying MESSAGE_OF_DAY would be much appreciated, too.
Fixed.

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by Phytotron »

Gee, let's think of how we could extend Z-Man's logic about this "solution" to the social and political spheres. :roll:

I still say it stinks and is unethical. Consider when I was contemplating making a server inspired by Breakfast in Hell: I still felt obligated to find out whether Lucifer had any objection. This, despite the fact that he included the Breakfast in Hell config as an 'Example' in the client and dedicated server downloads for anyone to use. Despite the fact that I wasn't even making an up-and-down clone, but a take-off inspired by it, and with a different name. Despite the fact that Lucifer and I have certainly had a contentious relationship (worse, at times, than has been between myself and Z&Co.). Despite all that, I nonetheless believe I had an ethical obligation to get his approval. There's an old moral precept (older than the invention of religion; older, probably, than the emergence of the hominid line) called, you know it, the Golden Rule. But people like Z just believe that they're golden, and they rule.

One wonders how these kids would react if someone were to put up a server called _`nyx.Loose: 4 Closers.

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by ~z~ »

Phytotron wrote:Gee, let's think of how we could extend Z-Man's logic about this "solution" to the social and political spheres. :roll:
Yes, but this is a specific solution for a game. Not all logic can and should be applied to every situation--no one cares that this solution can't be applied to anything and everything. You're operating on fallacy if you believe that. Again, suck it up.
Phytotron wrote:One wonders how these kids would react if someone were to put up a server called _`nyx.Loose: 4 Closers.
Go for it. We'd all get a laugh.

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Re: Fraudulent Shrunkland "clone"

Post by Word »

Z, if someone imposters you or your work, he also doesn't care about damaging your reputation. it's not like you did something criminal, but it's not respectful either. imagine someone would do the same to you. you can always say you won't care, but i don't think you'd like it.
Z wrote:Again, I have yet to find anyone that agrees with your radical claims.
And it's not like there's no one who agrees with Phytotron. I for example didn't comment it because i thought it's self-explaining that you did something wrong, but obviously you think you're in the right position because nobody of your mates stands up and starts to protest.

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