Going through rim walls/rips --> Lag? Bug?

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dlh
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Going through rim walls/rips --> Lag? Bug?

Post by dlh »

This only happens to me in Hell. I can go through the rim walls, and it pushes me back in. This leads to tight grinds and sometimes, what seems to be client side rips. There were a few times when there was a rip, a person went through it, and also got pushed back into the arena. With the fake client side rips, you just explode when you try to go through it.

I have some video-caps. I used SnazProX (Mac OS X program), and it turned out well. The original video was 200 MB, but I cut most of it and converted them to mpeg4s. Use VLC if you dont have quicktime.

http://generalconsumption.org/externals/armagetron/
Last edited by dlh on Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

pscreator1
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Post by pscreator1 »

with what your talking about it sounds like lag. the game will be slow over the net sometimes and i'll turn... and be on the wrong side of a wall, then slide back into place. this happens to me on tigers network sometimes. It's the only arena I play in.

much of the time I thin its a delayed death when its a lag slide.

s that what you are talking about?

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dlh
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Post by dlh »

pscreator1 wrote:with what your talking about it sounds like lag. the game will be slow over the net sometimes and i'll turn... and be on the wrong side of a wall, then slide back into place. this happens to me on tigers network sometimes. It's the only arena I play in.

much of the time I thin its a delayed death when its a lag slide.

s that what you are talking about?
I think the video-caps explain it better. I dont think its lag, because I can do it consistently.

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Post by Lucifer »

Um, z-man? this is going to be about your recent rip fix to cvs, since Hell's on cvs code as of yesterday....
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Post by dlh »

This happens with other players tails too, except that sometimes you dont get pushed, you just go through and live. So, I can drive through walls now, too. I will try to get a video-capture of it.

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n54
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Post by n54 »

i've seen all the captures (thank's for pointing out vlc could run them) and i'm not really sure...

did any of the other players actually see you going through the wall? because it kinda looked like a rubber & lag combination (notice how the walls always corrected themselves until the last time when you die (i.e. you had no more rubber). also notice how in one of the captures you once get a "hook" out beyond the wall of about the same length as you usually drive outside before the correction occurs.

but yeah it could be a bug, have you tried playing more on breakfast in hell and gotten it again and again?

btw i have had no such experience on the new breakfast in hell cvs build myself (not that that proves anything either way - just giving out the info). i'll keep it in mind when playing there.

edit:
i was wrong - something fishy is indeed going on

i just played at breakfast in hell with nemo until it crashed (probably something to do with an idiot named dahvid, maybe the logs would turn up something interesting? (like something triggering a DoS-like attack?)

anyway nemostultae and i found that
- the cvs fix does not stop ripping, ripping is now extremely easy
- however, one cannot use the rips to get out of the grid anymore without dying (so this part works)
- ripping does not crash the server (no ripping going on at the time the server crashed)
- when trying to go outside the arena you are pushed back into the game as the videoclips nemo made shows

finally a screenshot of a massive rip: an entire wall gone
Attachments
entire wall gone
entire wall gone
Last edited by n54 on Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dlh
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Post by dlh »

I can't verify this until I play in another cvs server, but its easier to rip/bend walls now. Here is a picture of a rip that happened of a corner grind. It took out the whole wall and then some. I'd like to play with the cvs client, to see if the same happens.

http://www.generalconsumption.org/exter ... _grind.jpg
Last edited by dlh on Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Lucifer »

n54 wrote: i just played at breakfast in hell with nemo until it crashed (probably something to do with an idiot named dahvid, maybe the logs would turn up something interesting? (like something triggering a DoS-like attack?)
Actually it was a DoS attack initiated by a 1-year old local to the server pushing the power button. Kids like to push buttons....

(He also opened the CD-ROM drive and put a CD in before I caught him, heh)
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Post by subby »

LOL

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Post by Lucifer »

More info. The server's a cvs checkout from a day or two ago, my client's a few days older than the server, but still recent cvs.

1. The rips that nemo's reporting can be seen as white dots on the *other* side of the rim wall on my client.

2. From time to time, my client will just start spinning out of control. It'll bounce around, gives the worst lag slides you've ever seen, actually. My rubber gauge goes haywire, that sort of thing. Sometimes I recover when it passes and keep driving (and I'm usually where I thought I should be), sometimes I don't, because I've crashed during all this.

3. From time to time, when I reach a place where there was recently a wall, my rubber gauge goes up, the camera pulls back, everything like I've just hit a wall. Then it straightens out again, everything smooths out, and I keep going.

These strike me as related, that's why they're here together in this post. :) Does it help, z-man? This should be all code you've recently been in, if I've been following the threads right.
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TiTnAsS
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Post by TiTnAsS »

Any of you remember way back when, in armsmegtron, focus ramen ripped 24/7... It was my experience that rips on corners usually rip the whole wall... If you need an expert on ripping to experiment more on this (like kessing/focusing/nuking) lots of other rips and breaks...ill get focus ramen to come help...There are alot more things then ripping liek this that need to be investegated, most of them are unlocked by the use of a script though..
Damn, it sure has been a while!

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Post by Lucifer »

TiTnAsS wrote:Any of you remember way back when, in armsmegtron, focus ramen ripped 24/7... It was my experience that rips on corners usually rip the whole wall... If you need an expert on ripping to experiment more on this (like kessing/focusing/nuking) lots of other rips and breaks...ill get focus ramen to come help...There are alot more things then ripping liek this that need to be investegated, most of them are unlocked by the use of a script though..
No thank you, I really don't want that guy on my server. Sorry.
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TiTnAsS
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Post by TiTnAsS »

Lol...i see your point.. Another thing i noticed in there is that when you try to adjust onto the outer wall you can't, you immediatly die...even if your not that close...i don't know if thats from the walls being protected or not... If you try to adjust onto someone eles' wall insteada getting closer to it you get further away, a gap is left at the area where you tryed to do it...
Damn, it sure has been a while!

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Post by Z-Man »

Ok, one after another.
nemostultae:
Thanks for the videos, they show the effect quite clearly. I think n54 is correct in his first analysis. You see a client bug here. On the server, neither did a rip occur ( you can test that by driving through a rip you see, you will either die or get pushed back ) nor did you ever leave the arena ( as can be seen by how your walls are finally placed; they are all neatly inside the arena ). The bug is caused by wrong handling of the combination of rubber and network sync messages. For those using CVS, I guess it is in every version of src/tron/gCycle.cpp up to 1.6, I'm positive it is fixed in 1.8.
New server code also plays a role here: since version 1.8, the server interprets client messages with more fault tolerance. On a server with an older version, what you did would just have killed you on the spot the moment you made your turn outside of the arena.
About the "going through other people's walls permanently": Can you make a video of that, too?

n54:
Are you using an older client ( not CVS )? It may in fact be that the new server side code will make ripping older clients easier. But i'm afraid I could only stop this if I disabled wall grinds ( you would need a min distance to walls to survive ).

Lucifer:
1) White dots? Do you mean sparks by that? Could you produce a screenshot?
2) This sounds like the same bug that caused the "invisible walls" effect on the client discussed here:
http://guru3.sytes.net/viewtopic.php?t=1571&start=15
It's fixed in src/engine/eGrid.cpp version 1.15 ( better 1.16 ) from thursday/friday.
3) the softer version of the same effect, I guess.
And yes, every detail helps.

TiTnAsS:
maybe we can set up a test server for this guy and organize a meeting. What kind of script are you referring to? A clientside script?
The adjusting to the rim wall failure is indeed related to a code change against ripping ( cycle_rubber should not allow you to make tighter turns than cycle_delay allows ), I intend to make this part configurable. see
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.ph ... tid=657951
it's the BUG_RUBBER_180 setting.
I'll have a look at the adjusting farther away thing, sounds like the cycle is going backwards a bit. This is strange since the code already checks against that since ages, so maybe there is a loophole. Could I get more info? Does it happen in network games only or solo games, too? What are the settings of cycle_rubber and cycle_delay? Is the wall you adjust to "fresh" ( just coming out of a cycle ) or "old"?

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SER
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Post by SER »

TiTnAsS wrote:Any of you remember way back when, in armsmegtron, focus ramen ripped 24/7... It was my experience that rips on corners usually rip the whole wall... If you need an expert on ripping to experiment more on this (like kessing/focusing/nuking) lots of other rips and breaks...ill get focus ramen to come help...There are alot more things then ripping liek this that need to be investegated, most of them are unlocked by the use of a script though..
Oh the old smeg days... fun fun...

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