What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

What do you want to see in Armagetron soon? Any new feature ideas? Let's ponder these ground breaking ideas...
Post Reply
User avatar
Lucifer
Project Developer & Local Moonshiner
Posts: 8610
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:32 pm
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by Lucifer »

Since this isn't the first time it's come up, but it has come up, here's something:

* A way for users to report to the server admin abusive players. We've sorta ignored this. Maybe there's more we can do besides this?
Image

Be the devil's own, Lucifer's my name.
- Iron Maiden

User avatar
Tank Program
Forum & Project Admin, PhD
Posts: 6709
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:03 pm

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by Tank Program »

What's the status of game statistics? I remember starting to rewrite the code for it. Maybe it's something that'd be worth polishing off, or at least adding to, for 0.4? The point I recall getting to is where it'd be relatively easy to have highscores.txt, won_rounds.txt, etc., be tables in a MySQL database. I had ripped out the ladder.txt stuff to be re-written, and that's still not done. Is it even useful anymore? The ladderlog.txt stuff might possibly be made database compatible as well. For admins is the database feature something worth following up on? Are there any expectations or existing mods for collecting stats we should look at incorporating? Other base statistics we could collect that would be useful?
Image

epsy
Adjust Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 2006
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:02 pm
Location: paris
Contact:

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by epsy »

Lucifer wrote:* Cockpit issues. It's in many ways a non-trivial task to edit a cockpit, but it is also beyond the scope to make it easy to use configuration items to modify a chosen cockpit.

* Being able to choose cockpits. There's the possibility this can happen, actually, but don't bet on it just yet. I need to look a bit deeper. But if we can have a cockpit chooser that works both in the in-game UI and the global UI, I'll do it.

* Make sure we have cockpits for all previous versions. And create a new cockpit for the new version. Current version is a show-off cockpit, not an actually reasoned-though cockpit. It shows what can be done. So we need to make sure classic gauges are respected and available, and have something new that truly represents 0.4.

* Making cockpits easier to edit. I'm not sure what we can do on that one, but I'm open to discussion. The main complaint is being able to use settings to move cockpit widgets around, which is nearly impossible, but not completely. Let's talk some more. Talk was made about a cockpit editor tool, but until such a thing materializes, we must assume it will never exist.

Seems that most of the discussion so far is about the cockpit, but that discussion is isolated to a few people. Phytotron: I hear you, I'm listening to your concerns and considering if they can be answered, and if so, how. I'm not ignoring you. I'd like to see what we can talk about besides the cockpit and glancing.
There were several annoyances I found when dealing with cockpits, I attempted a while ago to fix them in the 0.4-cockpit branch, but haven't quite finished. To give you an example, you can't center text with the cockpit code in the mainline.

The Cockpit Reference wiki page describes some of what is implemented in the branch. You can use the Compatibility Mode section or the Cockpit Tutorial page to compare. A few notable things off the top of my head that are missing from the page are:
  • You can position captions(ie. min/max/current value/label) using the new positioning system, but there are also more named positions that specify common locations for them. You can also set their size and color.
  • Label widgets(tables) can be manually sized and can be positioned the same as other widgets. You also pick text alignment and can choose to trace cell borders. (Not very pretty but useful when working on the cockpit.)
The branch should be able to be merged without much trouble, as the cockpit hasn't been changed much in the mainline.

A few things that make me consider it not finished and ready for merging and whatnot:
  • DataSet currently has two distinct forms: Those used by gauges etc which have IIRC a minimum and maximum field as well as a value, and those used by Label which only have one value. I would like to see them unified to diminish complexity as well as to allow color specifications in Label to make use of those data sets.
  • A way of labeling cockpit keys so you know what they do in the menus. Maybe also expand them so they become a data point usable by data sets, so you could make cockpit keys that cycle through different choices not limited to Map widgets.
  • Creating options for stacking widget backgrounds and allowing transformations between them. This is necessary for instance if you want to shape your gauge into something else than a rectangle.
  • A way of titling resources in general so they can be picked in a menu. The name part of the filename can't really be assumed to be a proper title.
  • Not before 0.4, but eventually there should be a way to have some kind of looping element, for instance if you want a table enumerating team scores on your cockpit.
A couple cockpits that make use of the existing changes are the default one and the spec_fortress one.

Monkey
Match Winner
Posts: 737
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 12:36 am
Location: England, UK

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by Monkey »

I agree about the cockpit issues.

I would also like to mention cameras. In 0.2.8, the default camera is smartcam yet it is *officially* (according to Z-Man) unsupported and undocumented. This is bad. I don't know what the default camera is for 0.4 but I think it should be one that is *officially* supported and documented.
Playing since December 2006

Durf
Match Winner
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:35 pm

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by Durf »

Lucifer wrote:Since this isn't the first time it's come up, but it has come up, here's something:

* A way for users to report to the server admin abusive players. We've sorta ignored this. Maybe there's more we can do besides this?
Actually I bugged Vertrex (LOVER$BOY) plenty about this.
It is available in sty+ct+ap.

The commands are:
/report <message> (available to any user, logs a one-line message with username and timestamp)
/reports read <number> (available to users with the access level for it, reads a specific line from reports.txt)
/reports clear (available to users with the access level, clears all reports)

The related settings are:

Code: Select all

ACCESS_LEVEL_REPORTS_READ 1 #only admins, owners, and greater can read reports, this is 20 by default I think...not sure why
ACCESS_LEVEL_REPORTS_CLEAR 0 #only owners can clear them ;)
. . . . .

Not sure if you guys knew, but it's there if you wanna take a look at it.
Personally it might not be the way I (or you) might have implemented the idea, but at least it's a functional version for you to take a look at.

..if you want that is. For all I know you already knew it was there..




On another note entirely...this might be a bad place to randomly start throwing out a bunch of ideas, so I'll limit it to one that isn't documented on some other forum somewhere:
What about picture-in-picture? A second view port for the same player, possibly with a different camera (incidentally, this could be only a few lines of code away from 3D support! Like with glasses.). Something like...a rear-view camera would be pretty sweet. Not sure just how 'crazy' of an idea that is...but it's something that I've wanted for a while now (better than having to take my hands away from my controls to glance).
Even if some people wouldn't like it, having the option (a cockpit option I guess) would be good...IMO

User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11378
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by Z-Man »

Monkey wrote:I agree about the cockpit issues.

I would also like to mention cameras. In 0.2.8, the default camera is smartcam yet it is *officially* (according to Z-Man) unsupported and undocumented. This is bad. I don't know what the default camera is for 0.4 but I think it should be one that is *officially* supported and documented.
Only the advanced smartcam settings are undocumented and unsupported. The smartcam itself is perfectly supported. The only problem: It's absolutely impossible to change it. Smartcam players get sick if you touch it. Also, I think we changed the default to custom? Not sure.

User avatar
blondie
Core Dumper
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by blondie »

off-topic and un-constructive, but the default custom and choice of default fov are ridiculously good.

huge ups to whoever's to credit for that- and I know it changed "recently", recently being 2008/2009 or so

User avatar
aP|Nelg
Match Winner
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:22 pm
Contact:

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by aP|Nelg »

Durf wrote:
Lucifer wrote:Since this isn't the first time it's come up, but it has come up, here's something:

* A way for users to report to the server admin abusive players. We've sorta ignored this. Maybe there's more we can do besides this?
Actually I bugged Vertrex (LOVER$BOY) plenty about this.
It is available in sty+ct+ap.

The commands are:
/report <message> (available to any user, logs a one-line message with username and timestamp)
/reports read <number> (available to users with the access level for it, reads a specific line from reports.txt)
/reports clear (available to users with the access level, clears all reports)

The related settings are:

Code: Select all

ACCESS_LEVEL_REPORTS_READ 1 #only admins, owners, and greater can read reports, this is 20 by default I think...not sure why
ACCESS_LEVEL_REPORTS_CLEAR 0 #only owners can clear them ;)
I had to code a php version of this so I could use it on an 0.4 server (Xt|High Rubber)
And please don't ask WHY its using 0.4

User avatar
Jip
Round Winner
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:32 pm

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by Jip »

Would the SDL 2 branch make it into mainline?

Monkey
Match Winner
Posts: 737
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 12:36 am
Location: England, UK

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by Monkey »

Z-Man wrote:
Monkey wrote:In 0.2.8, the default camera is smartcam yet it is *officially* (according to Z-Man) unsupported and undocumented. This is bad. I don't know what the default camera is for 0.4 but I think it should be one that is *officially* supported and documented.
Only the advanced smartcam settings are undocumented and unsupported. The smartcam itself is perfectly supported. The only problem: It's absolutely impossible to change it. Smartcam players get sick if you touch it. Also, I think we changed the default to custom? Not sure.
According to the following link, almost every 0.2.8 smartcam setting *is* an advanced setting and is therefore unsupported and undocumented (undocumented in the in-game console at least):
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~armagetron ... l.cfg#L156

To summarise:

Supported:
CAMERA_SMART_START_X
CAMERA_SMART_START_Y
CAMERA_SMART_START_Z

Unsupported:
CAMERA_SMART_DISTANCE
CAMERA_SMART_HEIGHT
CAMERA_SMART_TURN_GRINDING
CAMERA_SMART_MIN_DISTANCE
CAMERA_SMART_HEIGHT_EXTRA
CAMERA_SMART_HEIGHT_TURNING
CAMERA_SMART_HEIGHT_GRINDING
CAMERA_SMART_HEIGHT_OBSTACLE
CAMERA_SMART_CENTER_POS_SMOOTH
CAMERA_SMART_CENTER_DIR_SMOOTH
CAMERA_SMART_CENTER_LOOKAHEAD
CAMERA_SMART_CENTER_MAX_LOOKAHEAD
CAMERA_SMART_AVOID_FRONT
CAMERA_SMART_AVOID_FRONT2
CAMERA_SMART_CYCLESPEED
CAMERA_SMART_DISTANCESCALE
CAMERA_SMART_MIN_DISTANCESCALE 5.0

I don't see how you can say "the smartcam itself is perfectly supported" when this is the case.
Playing since December 2006

User avatar
Lucifer
Project Developer & Local Moonshiner
Posts: 8610
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:32 pm
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by Lucifer »

Jip wrote:Would the SDL 2 branch make it into mainline?
Maybe. I'll have to do some research, since the last I heard, SDL2 was abandoned due to infighting and left in an unstable state, and SDL1.3 was abandoned due to the fact that it was as good as it could get.

Also, someone remind me to fix that stupid bug in the sound engine where it doesn't start music when you start a game, like it's supposed to.

Any thoughts about the half-assed web server that's in there? Should we try to finish it, or cut it?
Image

Be the devil's own, Lucifer's my name.
- Iron Maiden

User avatar
compguygene
Adjust Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 2336
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:09 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by compguygene »

I found several positive reviews of SDL2 shortly after it was released in August of 2013. It is currently up to version 2.0.0.3, having had a few maintenance releases. Clearly not an abandoned project by any means. Also, SDL3 is being worked on.
Armagetron: It's a video game that people should just play and enjoy :)
https://bit.ly/2KBGYjvCheck out the simple site about TheServerPharm

User avatar
Jip
Round Winner
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:32 pm

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by Jip »

Lucifer wrote:
Jip wrote:Would the SDL 2 branch make it into mainline?
Maybe. I'll have to do some research, since the last I heard, SDL2 was abandoned due to infighting and left in an unstable state, and SDL1.3 was abandoned due to the fact that it was as good as it could get.
I was referring to the branch voodoo made

User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11378
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by Z-Man »

Monkey wrote:I don't see how you can say "the smartcam itself is perfectly supported" when this is the case.
That the settings are unsupported only means that CHANGING them is unsupported. At their default values, they are supported. The settings are there for two reasons:
1. to make the original tweaks to the smartcam quicker (I'm actually not too sure about that, could be that I simply hacked the code and reran the game back then)
2. to allow those who absolutely want to get their hands dirty and heads dizzy to mess with them on their own risk.

User avatar
Lucifer
Project Developer & Local Moonshiner
Posts: 8610
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:32 pm
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: What it is it going to take to make a .4 stable release?

Post by Lucifer »

I think we should take the distributed repository idea from /dev/null a bit more seriously.

I'll run a repository.
Image

Be the devil's own, Lucifer's my name.
- Iron Maiden

Post Reply