Clockwork [Discussion and Development]

[Vogue]

So, what does everyone think of the randomness? For me it completely ruins everything. How can you plan any sort of strategy when the zone RANDOMLY spawns? I'm missing something constant here... or maybe I'm a spoiled fort babby, wh0 noes.

[ogo]

I think the idea is that the zone is much more likely to spawn closer to the center than elsewhere, making it the most valuable part of the map to fight for. The fact that sometimes it doesn't spawn within the center's immediate vicinity means that other parts of the map are worth fighting for too, and are thus not just to be ignored. I think some competitive play is needed to give a more thorough understanding of the game

[blondie]

changelog

• increased maximum sumo size from 22 to 27
• increased zone defend rate so 1v3 is defensible
• increased central 50x50 zone percentage from 29% to ~33.33%
• decreased central 200x200 percentage from 61 to ~51.52%
• increased extreme flank percentage from 5% to 7.5%
• decreased height of flanks to make their perimeter surround-able
• increased rim_accel from 2 to 4

map of new regions




these changes were also play-tested by some this evening.

[blondie]

changelog based on gameplay and suggestions from today

• since reverted added CYCLE_BOOSTFACTOR_RIM 0 and CYCLE_BOOST_RIM 50. The effect of this is that, while the rim will still give you tons of speed and help you get across the map, you will lose almost all that speed once you turn away from the rim. The idea behind this is to weaken rimming as a tactic while still retaining it's function of giving mobility. You can still get places fast, but you won't be able to speed around once you're there as quickly. This also raise the value of keeping speed on the interior of the map. Additionally, this allows rimmers more control when they want to tunnel back through or grind corners.
• Increased invulnerability time from 0.8 s to 1s. Note that average human reaction time is roughly 0.25 seconds.
• Reduced the growth rate of the sumo zone from 1.25 to 1.15.
• Shrunk central square size from 50x50 to 30x30
• Reshaped flanks regions to be 25x50
• Increased flank value from 5% to 10%
• Reduced general region value from 52% to 46.4%

update diagram (accurately to scale this time)
white lines are the path of the respawn zones


erryone come play in a tournament on saturday!

[Vogue]

I think the idea is that the zone is much more likely to spawn closer to the center than elsewhere, making it the most valuable part of the map to fight for. The fact that sometimes it doesn't spawn within the center's immediate vicinity means that other parts of the map are worth fighting for too, and are thus not just to be ignored. I think some competitive play is needed to give a more thorough understanding of the game

idk... i need to play it more admittedly but i'm still not sold on the random shit

it feels very campy too at the start, something i assume you wanted to avoid

[ogo]

Team work is required to gain control of all the zone spawn area (not just the center). The center is by far the most valuable area, but it's not just a scrap for the center tile as the rest of the spawn zone is valuable too. If it was just mega-camping in the center to get the 90 second spawn zone then it wouldn't be too fun right? Right now it might feel a bit messy, but with organised tactics and team coordination, more methodical strategies will hopefully begin to emerge so that the entire spawn zone is taken into account and negotiated between teams, not just the middle

[blondie]

changelog

• arena size shrunk from 400x500 to 300x400, as per suggestions from dlh, among others. The size of the zone regions remains the same. Now, the cycle spawns at round start frame the 200x200 region along both it's dimensions. Positions 4 & 5 on each team spawn at the corners of the 200x200 area.

[Vogue]

Team work is required to gain control of all the zone spawn area (not just the center). The center is by far the most valuable area, but it's not just a scrap for the center tile as the rest of the spawn zone is valuable too. If it was just mega-camping in the center to get the 90 second spawn zone then it wouldn't be too fun right? Right now it might feel a bit messy, but with organised tactics and team coordination, more methodical strategies will hopefully begin to emerge so that the entire spawn zone is taken into account and negotiated between teams, not just the middle

it just feels like megacamping everywhere before the sumo zone spawns imo

[blondie]

There's some funkiness with Armagetron where respawns continue to apply SPAWN_WINGMEN_OFFSET for respawning players, probably having to do with the fact that respawn is a hack that was patched onto the game. Anyway, when we shrunk the grid last night, the result was that position 5 occasionally got his respawn pushed all the way outside the arena. So, sorry bout that.

changelog

• widened map from 400x300 to 420x300. This is to help fix the outside spawn problem.
• reduced SPAWN_WINGMEN_SIDE form 50 to 40. Again see above.
• reduced CYCLE_START_SPEED from 70 to 60. Compared to the 500x400 map, you are 100 m closer to your opponent on start, so START_SPEED has been scaled back to rebalance that. This also makes it easier to react to avoid dying upon respawning.
• respawn zones now start at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock instead of 3 & 9. Previously, their team assignments had to be hardcoded to avoid both being assigned to the same team when teams were uneven. The result was that if you were leading, your respawn would be to your right, trailing it would be to your left. That awkwardness is now avoided.
• Zone maximum radius shrunk from 27 to 26.
• changed region values:
  • 33%: center 30x30
  • 19%: flank 50x25 lanes. The inner edge of these is 100 m from the center, so just to the outside of positions 4 & 5.
  • 14.5%: 300x40 horizontal lanes. These begin where you spawn and extend horizontally almost to the edges of the rim. The top vertical edge is 60 m from the center, and 45 meter from the edge of the 30x30.

diagram of current arena


For all these regions, remember that the center of the zone spawns within them. Considering it has a radius of 26 m, the area you have to control to control all of the zones is actually 26 m larger in each of the four directions. To a new player, these regions will still appear mostly random. For competitive players, with experience it should be natural enough you don't need a floor texture. If you want one, the above image is to scale, so that's a good reference.

[vov]

Tip: If you use a floor/grid, try setting grid_size to 50. What it shows you:
- X marks the spot on the center (also try grid_size 25 or 35.35534* in sumo )
- No zones will spawn in the outer "ring", but basically anywhere right inside of it (see actual spots though)
- Preview is roughly when the respawn zone passes the last line before the rim

If you now think the lines are too fat, you can (backup and) replace floor.png (folder "textures" or "moviepack") with these things below (rename these to floor.png ofc). It's just a black NxN square with a 1px bright outline if you wanna do your own size.
Also required: In ESC -> System Settings -> Display -> Detail; set "Floor Detail" to [single] textured plane. If you want coloured or brighter/darker lines, adjust (moviepack_)floor_red /_green /_blue.

* For the math fans: 35.35534 = sqrt(2)*25 to adjust for uneven grid_size number, and iirc 100/K or sqrt(2)*100/K with K as integer/whole number as a size gives the X-marks-the-center for sumo too.

[blondie]

current settings/script for anyone that wants them

[blondie]

some major changes after what's been a good 10 days of testing the initial concept. Still 5v5, fort physics, etc.

• Much smaller active arena, the active area is now 150x250. The old area was so large that there was no challenge in controlling a large amount of space and no point to controlling a small part. Now, real estate is more valuable and more difficult to control.
• Small zones spawn every 5 seconds. If you are first to the zone, you get 10 points. Every zone is worth 1 point more than the one that preceded it. After 15 seconds, each zone disappears if no one gets to them.
• Every 6th zone is worth double points. These are colored differently to distinguish them.
• Kill points (start at 7) increase by 1 every 30 seconds.
• Auto-respawn at 15 seconds.
• Zones get very gradually less random as the round goes on. The effective area they can be spawned inside shrinks 3% every 5 seconds.
• Scoring settings are still being tweaked. Currently, a match is set up to be a best of 3 rounds. Each round is first team to 1000 points.

[Vogue]

There really needs to be a pickup for this. During the day nobody plays in the server, and when it's day for americans I'm usually busy or everyone's playing pickups.

[blondie]

there is a pickup for this. it needs to be tested to work out the kinks. no one seems interested in doing anything, so it hasn't gotten tested.