Tutorials!

[Z-Man]

Oh, that's bad. Was it the attack or defense tutorial? Probably both. Got a suspect, one static variable that's not reset properly. On it! And got it. Too late to make it into today's snapshot, though.

And yeah, once the animations are all in there, we should all go out and test the things on unsuspecting victims. They're meant to be completable by everyone using only the tips provided by the game.

[kyle]

Ya it was in both, that is now fixed. But now when repeating the second one (from ahead) I noticed the mini-map going away once it starts.

[Z-Man]

Hmm, and it comes back when you beat the easier challenge. Easier difficulty is usually done by reducing the overall game speed via hacking the timer speed, and the cockpit code checks that before it renders anything. I did it that way because it guarantees the tutorials still work, but I'll check whether the traditional way (the overall speed setting) works as well for our purposes.

[kyle]

I've beaten all of them, I just went back to make sure that you fixed the previous problem and failed at it the first time. so it looped back to play again and then the mini map was gone. Until i went back to the tutorial menu and selected that tutorial to play again.

[Z-Man]

New build is up with a bunch of new challenges.

The challenges fall into four categories, basically:
- Maze. Follow the two AI leads as they do longer and faster patterns.
- AI. Beat up a couple of AIs, first in LMS mode, later with them respawning and you having to score a set number of kills under a given time limit (which starts low and expands with every kill).
- Showcase. Shows setting variations that are interesting or simply found out there in the wild. We have Brake Boost, High Rubber, High Speed, Maps, and non-standard axes.
- Survival. Survive for a set amount of time under increasingly harsh circumstances.

I myself haven't completed the last three challenges yet. I don't know whether they're possible to beat at all (The ultimate maze one can be beaten by the chatbot if you activate it using the console, so at least it's technically beatable.)

Also, the default physics have been tweaked a bit to make AI fights more interesting. Slightly lower speed, slightly higher acceleration.

I'm basically done, bar some possible tweaks to eliminate difficulty spikes (dips are fine in my book, nothing like breezing through a level after a tough one) and cutting out boring stuff (like Dragon Maze 9). It took me roughly two hours to get to the final three, so length wise we're perfectly fine for a tacked on single player mode to a multiplayer game, I'd say. It'll even give you enough XP to unlock all servers on the internet browser. I may redesign that so that you either need online experience or complete specific challenges to unlock high rubber servers. (And when I say 'unlock', I really just mean 'dig up', there are no servers the client locks up for players at any time.)

Still, if you have more ideas what can be put in there, go ahead and suggest them. Just mind the limitations: there is some leeway in setting things up (we have full control over the gamestate if need be), AIs can follow scripted paths to the death or until they hit an obstacle, and it's possible to change settings at specific trigger points. But any moment-to-moment game dynamic needs to be already there, we can't give enemies shorter trails or higher speed or anything, and the regular AI that is already there needs to be able to handle itself (hence the high rubber and low delay in the axes showcase, they lack the planning to turn away from walls early enough).

Two specific obvious ideas I'm biased against: Showcases for No Rubber and Racing. The basic settings are already close enough to No Rubber to not make enough difference, and proper racing would require an AI opponent capable of operating the brake. And following paths in a non-standard axes setting.

Also, of one of you would like to tackle the repetitive introduction texts and spruce them up, go right ahead. Anything that attaches a little bit of meaning, makes the challenge a little bit personal is fine. Not too much, though, given the simplicity of the task. So no epic tale of Software Gods holding a Tournament to determine the One True Master Program to defeat the Evil of BlaBlubb, please. That's for later versions

[Phytotron]

Still unavailable for Mac, I assume?

[Z-Man]

Yeah, no Mac. Sorry.

[apparition]

I didn't notice this before, but I'll definitely boot my Mac into Windows mode and try this soon

Question: Would it be too difficult/stupid to eventually develop tutorials for all popular game modes (ie. sumo, ctf, fort, race, ctwf, shooting)?

[Z-Man]

For full tutorials on a mode, full support for it needs to be in the game first, complete with AI. The tutorials we have now weren't that hard to do because they cover stuff the AI is moderately competent at already, and where it isn't, the situation is made controlled enough that scripted paths work. The basic support is the hard part, baking it into a tutorial is then easy.

[compguygene]

I just downloaded/installed the newest .4 client build and finished all the tutorials and challenges. I really think that if a player takes the time to do all the tutorials/challenges, they will be pretty well prepared to be unleashed among the wilds of the 1,000,000 Armagetron Servers.

Perhaps when you have finished with you plans to integrate the fortress_ai branch it would be possible to add Sumo and Fortress tutorials.

[Light]

Is there any way we could get bots runnin' loose df paths? I could really use some escape practice, and I don't think it would take much extra effort if you just put paths in. Idk how hard it is to make the tutorials, but I just meant they wouldn't need extra coding like sumo or fort would.

Just an idea.

[sinewav]

Is there any way we could get bots runnin' loose df paths?

They already do, at least the experimental bots do. I've got them in a server named "The Mainframe and they are nearly impossible to kill. They dig and tunnel out of everything. Go ahead, try it if you don't believe me.

The AI in Armagetron are fantastic, really. The only thing they are missing is the ability to hunt you. I've only seen that in one lightcycle game and that's "Game Grid Champions." Dan Hsu's bot for the original FLTron is pretty brutal, but too easy to beat once you learn the trick.

[Light]

The only thing they are missing is the ability to hunt you.

That's what I'm after. I wan't it to attack me, but loose style. I figured if he could set up some predefined paths and put you behind them, it could possibly work out as a challenge or something to escape in loose settings. Practicing attacks you can do pretty much anywhere, but escapes you have to practice by being taken, then if you fail (which I do a lot) then you gotta wait a bit until the round is over to try again. I would just like something that I could practice on so I can get better at escaping.

[sinewav]

I wan't it to attack me, but loose style.

Ok before I go into a crazy rant, I need to point something out. The best way to have "loose" gameplay is in a server with low rubber. That means R <= 1. The bots already play loose. Check it out in a local game with smaller cycle_delay, they rarely "close" -- or at least they close about as much as you'll see in a loose server.

Either way, I'm fairly certain tunneling is not something tutorial worthy. It's something you pick up while playing. The main goal of the tutorials should be how to kill your opponent, not how to romance them. And like I said before, the AI tunnel and play loose, but get enough of them in a small enough space and feels like they are hunting you. I don't know what to tell you about AI making silly "traps" though.

...

Wait, I stand corrected. They do make stupid traps. See attached.

[Z-Man]

The path following code is not precise enough to do loose grinds reliably, fixed paths are of limited use anyway, and I don't want to give the impression that voluntary open play is anything actively supported. Future bots may be taught to grind lightly and build small mazes instead of the stab attempts they make now, simply because bots are supposed to be flawed and have easily exploitable mannerisms.

Sinewav: yeah, they have a 'trace' state where they follow a wall either left or right, mostly activated when they want to speed up. They don't do that so you can follow in between, they leave a gap because using up rubber to speed up is a bit silly.