iPhone 3G?

What do you want to see in Armagetron soon? Any new feature ideas? Let's ponder these ground breaking ideas...
Pathetique
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iPhone 3G?

Post by Pathetique »

With the upcoming release of the iPhone 3G, I was talking with some of my friends who are more technologically inclined and they said that the iPhone already comes with Open GL installed and that's how countless games are being made for it. So I thought, let's see if we can compile a copy of tron for the iPhone 3G. I went and downloaded the iPhone SDK and set out to compile a copy of tron that would run on the iPhone 3G Simulator.

Wish me luck! If anyone has any tips, feel free to post them. :)
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Post by epsy »

You can't use 3rd-party software with the iPhone, end of.
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dlh
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Post by dlh »

You would need to port the game, as the iPhone uses OpenGL ES 1.5. User input would need to be handled differently (no keyboard). I think there is a port of SDL to the iPhone.

@epsy: Native SDK for 3rd party software.
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Post by voodoo »

There's no stable SDL yet, only a work-in-progress version on svn repo...

With 0.2.8 there's already plenty of issues to fix :
- some minor issues with math library on iphone
- OpenGLES compatibility : include standard opengl functions that do not exist in opengles + glu (only a very light glu version is available right now)
- SDL (Image, mixer, ...) : include font, textures, screen info, audio and input ...

With 0.3.x version, there's extra issues to fix :
- freetype and FTGL
- boost lib

Right out of the box, it means more than 5000 errors with v0.3.x...

Actually, I've start some tests, importing step by step source code from arma into an iphone app : network, tools and render subdirectories are almost done so far. The opengl code is almost ported, the SDL part is still to be done. Considering a port is on the way, it might not be an issue for too long ;)

But there's a more important issue. The SDK is under NDA so you can't publish whatever you want. There's even some issue between GNU GPL v3 and apple licensing. So there's legal issue to fix before you can distribute the port ... Googled these topic to get more infos.
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Post by Pathetique »

The iPhone uses "touch" events for input. So perhaps there would be defined areas of the screen that would be used to define as inputs for left and right. I checked out libsdl.org and it appears that it may be useable on the iPhone. I found this. SDL To iPhone!. So we may be in luck. I just have to stop sumoing right now and read it.
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Post by Pathetique »

voodoo wrote:But there's a more important issue. The SDK is under NDA so you can't publish whatever you want. There's even some issue between GNU GPL v3 and apple licensing. So there's legal issue to fix before you can distribute the port ... Googled these topic to get more infos.
As long as it meets the requirements Apple sets forth for quality and look, you can submit it to the Apps Store and as long as they approve it will be available for download...and you can submit it for free...doesn't that take care of the licensing?
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Post by epsy »

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Post by Pathetique »

FFS.

So, if we go beyond using google to try and destroy other people's ideas, we find...
At http://www.apple.com/iphone/...
Image

Oh look, see that part about the App Store? I wonder what's there.
At http://www.apple.com/iphone/appstore/ we find...
Image

And then if we follow a few links to http://developer.apple.com/iphone/index.action we find...
Image

I dunno, I'm pretty sure this wouldn't brick your iPhone 3G or void any warrantees if someone downloaded a copy of Armagetron for their phone, simply because Apple can't stop advertising the fact that theres an SDK out for the upcoming iPhone.

Any further questions or responses?
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Post by Lucifer »

Pathetique wrote:
voodoo wrote:But there's a more important issue. The SDK is under NDA so you can't publish whatever you want. There's even some issue between GNU GPL v3 and apple licensing. So there's legal issue to fix before you can distribute the port ... Googled these topic to get more infos.
As long as it meets the requirements Apple sets forth for quality and look, you can submit it to the Apps Store and as long as they approve it will be available for download...and you can submit it for free...doesn't that take care of the licensing?
No, it doesn't. If the SDK is under NDA, we can't release the source to the port, and if we can't release the source to the port, we violate the GPL.
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Be the devil's own, Lucifer's my name.
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Post by Pathetique »

oic.

Hmm. That's a bit of a tricky thing. Apple is a pretty big proponent of Open Source, so perhaps with a few emails they might be willing to make an exception?
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Post by epsy »

Pathetique wrote:So, if we go beyond using google to try and destroy other people's ideas, we find...
It's not me who's trying to ruin your idea, it's Apple
I would be personally glad to see ArmagetronAd running on an iPhone (or almost on any embedded device) natively, but Apple isn't that kind of beloved brother of open source and free software

not at all
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Post by dlh »

Uh, epsy, pointing to a google search on "iphone third party software brick" doesn't prove anything.

The SDK is under NDA right now, however all developer previews from Apple go through the same treatment. It most definitely will permit FOSS--there is a clause in the license agreement about it:
3.3.14 If Your Application includes any FOSS, You agree to comply with all applicable FOSS licensing terms. You also agree not to use any FOSS in the development of Your Application in such a way that would cause the non-FOSS portions of the Apple Software to be subject to any FOSS licensing terms or obligations.
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Post by voodoo »

I didn't know about this 3.3.14 chapter.

Here is a discussion about the NDA and as far as I can understand, there's still conflicts between GPL and NDA. I might be wrong though, my english is limited ...

http://www.linux.com/feature/131752

@Pathetique: it does not mean you can't try to port it but you will not be able to distribute it. May be you can share it with people who accept the SDK agreement as well ? But definitly not through an public channel...

Edit: related to this topic
http://www.nabble.com/iPhone-SDL-projec ... 03382.html
There's also 2 video on you tube:
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=th3__8ozNz0
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=nsaTHM0R2Dw

Basically, as pointed out as the end of the 1st link, port is progressing, including audio, input device, ... but due to the NDA, they can't release the source code :(
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Post by Pathetique »

It does seem that there is little to no room to do something like this "legally" and not violate any of the aforementioned restrictions. :\
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Post by Pathetique »

What am I talking about. Thank you.

Aero just pointed out that all that we would have to do is remove anything that is Apple's property. So any of the touch events would be removed, and any references to the CoreFoundations stuff would also be removed, and would allow us to keep the GPL license valid and still obey the Apple License.
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