Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enforced

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elephanthunter
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Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enforced

Post by elephanthunter »

A friend showed me Armagetron earlier this week. It's a really fun game, especially when playing with friends. Me and my girlfriend played for hours on a local server. Just yesterday, we decided we we should play on the internet. More people, more fun... right?

When we joined a server, we immediately noticed the stark difference from default server settings. People could make seemingly impossible turns, creating and escaping intricate mazes that we couldn't even see the entrance or exit to. When they ran into a wall, they didn't immediately crash and die, they had a second or so to react (the setting I now know as "rubber".) Eventually, we got the feel for this somewhat harsher environment. Initially, it was just a fun learning experience... but as I got better, people started calling me a "noob" and accusing me of "digging", "stabbing". When I asked what they were talking about, I just got vote kicked. Luckily for me, one guy had the sense to explain something that was not explained by the server... "loose dogfighting" has very specific rules as to what was and was not allowed. He suggested that I read up about it, which I did.

After I watched a few videos and read some online discussions, I noticed that people in our game were clearly double and triple binding to create the traps and mazes. They camped when stuck and hugged the walls to kill opponents... things that I thought were clearly against the rules of "loose dogfighting". If they are in the clan (in this instance, dbd), they are not vote kicked for this. If an outsider attempts any of this, he or she gets the boot.

Here's what I don't get... if I am stuck in somebody else's trap, I die because I ran into a wall. If there is somebody behind me and they are killed because I couldn't get out fast enough, I am a "stabber" and get vote kicked. Why are the rubber settings so high that people have the opportunity to "stab" and "dig" at all, and why can I be penalized for not reacting fast enough at wall when the edges are impossible to see?

Anyway, for now I'm not going to be playing in these "loose dogfight" servers. A few select people in the servers were nice, but honestly these rules are so vague that they seem to encourage poor sportsmanship and loose enforcement.

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Z-Man
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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Z-Man »

Welcome!

And yes, the arbitrariness of the non-enforced rules on some servers is a sore point for all of us. We tried to make it so that they could be enforced by the server, but they are so arbitrary that it turned out to be impossible. Kind of like Calvinball. Just look for servers where people are not dicks. Also to avoid for a while: Fortress servers. Those are team based and players often react badly to new people coming in, not knowing what to do. Definitely watch a couple of rounds before entering.

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Light
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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Light »

Not all loose dfers are assholes like that, and many of us would help you learn how to play. If you would like a set of rules, try going to Light's Loose Dogfight and type "/rules" (without quotes) into the chat.

Maybe until you get a better feel for the game, try playing "high rubber" servers, where there are no rules. You get plenty of rubber to react to hitting walls, and you're not penalized for doing anything. You could also try sumo servers for lower rubber, and still no rules or anything to get kicked for.

Dogfight is about bike control, not so much about getting points and winning the match. It's rarely played to be top of the scoreboard, just more for fun. I don't know if it would be a good starting gametype, but if you put a little effort into following the rules, you would start getting the hang of it within a few days.

You should try to learn at least double binding, so you can escape and do traps such as hooks. But overall, it just takes time and patience. Not everyone likes playing with new players, but many of us would put up with occasional stabbing if you're at least trying to abide by the rules. Mistakes happen, and you'll only get better.

Hope ya don't give up on it, and maybe that list of rules will help you out.
C"ya

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Ratchet
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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Ratchet »

As a new user, Dogfight is not where you want to be. Dogfight takes a bit of tight/rapid turning, and for new players that's not going to go over well. I'll do my best to give you some tips.

1) Multi-binding: Arguably, having multiple keys to turn is very important in tron these days. Popular game modes include (but aren't limited to) Fortress, Sumo, CTF, and Dogfight. These servers all demand rapid thinking and turning. I suggest you go to your input configuration and set up <at least> two keys for each turn direction. Two left, two right.
Example setups:

Z, Left Arrow = turn left
X, Right Arrow = turn right
Down Arrow = brakes

Alternative:

a,s,d = turn left
k, l, ; = turn right
Spacebar = brakes

2) Picking the right game mode: As Z-man stated, Fortress is certainly the most harsh on new players. If you mess up for a single round, and people don't know who you are, you're likely to get suspended/kicked immediately. I would, alternatively, recommend High Rubber or Sumo. High rubber is a bit slower paced, and definitely allows more time to think. Sumo is more rapid, and requires intricate techniques and turn patterns (known as mazes) to utilize as much space as possible and stay alive. For an easier learning curve, try High Rubber. Once you feel like you understand it a bit, consider CTF (easier) or Sumo (harder).

3) Making friends: Don't "troll" people. There are tons of people out there willing to explain to you how to play tron, or show you what you can do differently. Talk openly when you play servers, let them know that you're a new person. Their attitude towards you is infinitely more likely to be positive if they realize you're a new person willing to learn, rather than "some random noob" who doesn't know how to play and is named freak2342934. Communicate with those in the servers you play in. It's rewarding!
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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Monkey »

First of all, hi there elephanthunter and welcome to Armagetron. I must apologise for the assholes in this game. Don't worry though, there are some decent people in the game too :) .

I am going to disagree with some of the above advice:

1) Multibinding: Not necessary. I don't multibind and quite a few others don't too.

2) Picking the right game mode: Learn sumo and fortress. They both use the same physics, very nice physics, and they are the best game modes in my opinion, without any stupid and impossible to enforce rules. I learnt fortress first. Yes that's right, I went straight in to a fortress server in my first time online in this game and fell in love with it straight away, despite being kicked a couple of times :) . Watch a few rounds first and as long as you listen to people you should be fine. Even if you get suspended or kicked don't be afraid to come straight back in. This excludes any organised matches or tournaments, where you are able to watch but not play.
Playing since December 2006

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Fippmam
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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Fippmam »

Ratchet wrote: and is named freak2342934.
This isn't XboxL though - no one's named that.

But yeah I'd agree on pretty much what Ratchet just said. High Rubber is where most people start off (after they discover that Word/Excel/Outlook are just bots). CTF is also a lot of fun and easy to get a hang off, once you've learned core skills that High Rubber will probably teach you. Sumo and Fort will probably be one of the last game modes you want to try, simply because they require quite a bit of control. DF is hit or miss imo. Never really clicked for me, but I've always thought the physics/mechanics of CTF and DF have always been pretty close to each other.

Another thing I noticed is that the CTF players who migrated to Sumo, seem to have an easier time adjusting than say, the FastTrack/High Rubber players. I guess that also applies to DF players who I've recently started seeing in sumo. Anyway, bottom line: High Rubber ---> CTF/DF (your choice, or both...but I'd recommend CTF because it still has monthly tournaments) ---> Sumo/Fort (With sumo being less...difficult to pickup? Fortress can be a real pain in the ass sometimes).

Edit: Multibinding isn't really needed in Low Rubber, as several spectacular players have shown. In HR/CTF/DF though, I think they're kind of a necessity. I'd be really shocked to see an all SingleBinding team win brawl for example, whereas we all know Dread almost won the last SBT.

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Ratchet
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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Ratchet »

Monkey wrote:1) Multibinding: Not necessary. I don't multibind and quite a few others don't too.
Fippmam wrote:Edit: Multibinding isn't really needed in Low Rubber, as several spectacular players have shown. In HR/CTF/DF though, I think they're kind of a necessity. I'd be really shocked to see an all SingleBinding team win brawl for example, whereas we all know Dread almost won the last SBT.
My point of view as well - and since he's likely to take the gradual learning path, he'll need to pass through the micro-HR traps phase, the CTF PWN phase, and then he will be at sumo/fortress and he can consider dropping a few extra keys :P
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Light
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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Light »

Ratchet wrote:My point of view as well - and since he's likely to take the gradual learning path, he'll need to pass through the micro-HR traps phase, the CTF PWN phase, and then he will be at sumo/fortress and he can consider dropping a few extra keys :P
Or HR -> CTF -> DF / HR -> TDF -> LDF :twisted: No stealing our new dfers for sumo. lol

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Lucifer
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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Lucifer »

Light wrote:
Ratchet wrote:My point of view as well - and since he's likely to take the gradual learning path, he'll need to pass through the micro-HR traps phase, the CTF PWN phase, and then he will be at sumo/fortress and he can consider dropping a few extra keys :P
Or HR -> CTF -> DF / HR -> TDF -> LDF :twisted: No stealing our new dfers for sumo. lol
Looks like your dfers are doing a good job chasing them away.

I need to run a server again. :/
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Light
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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Light »

Lucifer wrote:Looks like your dfers are doing a good job chasing them away.

I need to run a server again. :/
DF and Fort are hard sometimes. There are some nice people, but then there are a lot of assholes. Luckily I got in with Rxers when I started DF, and they put up w/ me. I learned from them and a few others, like Panda and eventually got the hang of it.

I remember what it was like, so I don't really get down on people in DF unless they just plain out don't try. Some people don't care that there are rules there and play like a douche on purpose, and those ones I do chase out.

On the topic of Fort .. I still get yelled at there sometimes. lol The physics make me panic because I can't think of what to do in time, where as in DF I have more control. I'm slowly getting better at fort and sumo though. Keyword: slowly :P

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sinewav
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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by sinewav »

Learn to play on low rubber servers and you will be a better at Armagetron. If you have friends who will play online with you I suggest bringing them to the Adventures of TRON family of servers. These servers are explicitly low rubber and each one is unique in Arma. Most of the servers are designed to work well as a single player game or with just a few people (except Maze-A-Tron which is single player only).

If you like the default Arma settings then Fortress and Sumo are for you. Don't be afraid to try Fortress, it takes very little time to learn the basics and reading the wiki is a good place to start.

Good luck and happy tronning.

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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Word »

Yeah, completely ignore High Rubber servers if you want to improve. They're crap, and so are the players there. They too complain about "stabbing" despite the settings that make it nearly impossible to die. You don't want people to make it easy for you, you want to be challenged. Dog Fight and its players (who love to declare that they have more fun while complaining whenever they themselves get killed, because they don't know how to control their rubber) is the worst that could have happened to Armagetron.

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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Phytotron »

Monkey wrote:...fortress...without any stupid and impossible to enforce rules.
Wait, what?! There's not a more regimented game mode in Armagetron than Fortress.


For pure, classic Armagetron gameplay, I invite you to Shrunkland and Bebop in Harlem. Normal, sane rubber settings. Normal turning radius, none of that ridiculously tight stuff that advantages multibinders. Fun, competitive physics. No made-up rules about how people should play—and if anyone ever does give you crap for that or anything else, send them to me. I'm kind of proud of the fact that these servers cater to all skill levels—both the novice and the 'veteran' can have a good playing experience there. I also strive to maintain a 'safe' environment where player behavior is concerned.

I also endorse the Adventures of TRON servers.

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Fippmam
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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Fippmam »

Low rubber is hardly advantageous to multibinders. There are a lot of players who can make do just singlebinding - we actually just had a single bind sumo tournament that more or less proved this.

In fact, if anything, multibinding its disadvantageous in low rubber. That's why you hardly see anyone in sumo/fort triple binding, or more absurdly, quad-binding and etc.

But since we're referring the op to fun servers, I'd like to suggest Happy Fun Time. The original one hosted by Cookie works well, but there's also another hosted by Light, iirc. It's basically an rpg styled mode, complete with wands, spells, and the like.

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Re: Loose Dogfighting Hostile to New Players; Rules not enfo

Post by Gazelle »

Yeah actually i dont know of any sumo/fort player that triple binds... it causes to much of a problem.. just get fast fingers and double / single.

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