Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

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Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by premaDpG »

Hey all,
I have searched google for CTF rules,etc [based on the idea i received from the honorable ~`U Tru]
Sadly, i couldn't find a thing about it. i checked the competition hub,etc but again i found nothing.

If anyone could link me to a site that has Armagetron CTF rules,etc i would greatly appreciate it, as well as any links to Sumo/Ladle Rules.

The reason being is I want to get the players in my clan more in touch with CTF [as we have majority Fort players]

i greatly appreciate this.

Thank you,

Prema
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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by DDMJ »

CTF: Capture the flag and bring it back to your zone while, at the same time, protecting your own flag!

Sumo: Stay inside and survive!

Fortress: Capture your opponents zone before they captures yours! To capture, have more teammates in the enemy's zone than they do. You can also win by killing everyone on the other team.

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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by premaDpG »

thanks,
i was looking more for a what to do/ what not to do type of thing, if you get what im saying.

I kinda want my clan members [ who are majority fort players] to understand the rules of CTF

*I threw in fort/sumo because i'd like to study them a bit more :)

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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by sinewav »

The only game that has a comprehensive guidebook is Fortress.
http://www.creotronic.net/armagetron-2/ ... ress-guide

Also, a great deal of knowledge can be found at the archive of Play Fortress, currently here:
http://zomgholers.wordpress.com/

Sumo doesn't have a strategy guide. Just stay in the circle. It's one of those things you just have to pick-up through playing it. Spend some time in spectator mode watching good players and you'll get better, faster.

I think I might be to only person who has written extensively on CTF, but most of I wrote is either old commentary or based on techniques for defending a flag. Here is a manual. I've attached some essays on holing and base-camping.

Regardless of what you do, top CTF teams need a lot of coordination. Using VoIP software in tournaments will give you an edge. Holing and base-camping are vital skills to learn, so don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Good luck.

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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by Word »

sinewav wrote:Sumo doesn't have a strategy guide. Just stay in the circle. It's one of those things you just have to pick-up through playing it. Spend some time in spectator mode watching good players and you'll get better, faster.
There's a text by Durka on Ww forums, and this text about triple turns/mazing by connor. Perhaps he still has it (their forums seem to be deleted).
sinewav wrote:I think I might be to only person who has written extensively on CTF, but most of I wrote is either old commentary or based on techniques for defending a flag. Here is a manual. I've attached some essays on holing and base-camping.
What about Levi?! :P :o

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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

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zat may have saved the forum before taking it offline, in fact I hope he did!
pLxDari - Challenge us!

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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by premaDpG »

oh wow!

thank you everyone, especially sinewav! those links, and attachment were extremely helpful!

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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by sinewav »

Word wrote:What about Levi?! :P :o
Oh right, that kid. There is only one post I know of here (I don't remember any on lagtest.net). It basically just talks about suicides! You'll also notice it talks about "working the scoreboard" with team suicides, the winning tactic which has since been forbidden, and a tactic that is encroaching on Fortress play. How timely.

And hey! I forgot about this one:
http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... =25&t=9101

This is a CTF thread that was helpful to me when I first started. It was written just after CTF was created and people were still exploring it in Armagetron. Good stuff.

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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by Word »

Sorry in advance if i triple post

Connor's guide

The Basics - Strategy

Welcome to my guide on sumo. This is the first part of the guide and it deals with the fundamentals of sumo.

Some things to take note of:

I use the "custom" camera with 65 FOV (field of view) and I use 0.2.8 version of the game. I am terrible at grammar and punctuation. Ok now that your aware of these things read on...

First I will be covering the very basic things of sumo, so there is no need to read this if you are already "pro". When you enter a sumo server with players in it you will notice a few things. First thing I think that will be most noticeable will be that there is a large "zone" also known as a "base". If you look closely you will see that the zone is made of multiple circles and each circle belongs to a player and each one has its own colour which will be the players colour. When a player goes outside the zone his or her circle will start rotating and the faster it will rotate the longer you are outside of the zone. After about 4 or 5 seconds the zone eventually "collapses" and the player will be "eradicated" (you will explode). Also you only have 5 rubber, so its easy to die when you hit a wall.
Image

If you survive long enough you will notice that the zone gets smaller minute after minute. So this naturally makes everyone try and grab space. If you can take the most space and defend it, other players will be forced outside the zone and they will be eradicated. I've noticed that players coming from HR (high rubber) styles or other styles try and attack. I wouldn't try this if you are new to sumo. Sumo is like a camper's paradise. Its all about making a box (taking space) and defending it (camping).

Since the zone gets smaller as time goes on the best part of it is the centre. If you have control of the centre you will be the last one to be forced outside the zone. Conversely the worst part of the zone is the outer edges since you will be the first to be forced outside of safety.

So to summarise. First you need to take space. But keep in mind that a smaller amount of space is better than going for a larger amount and getting core dumped! When you have your space make sure you follow your tail. Your tail is the end part of the wall that your light-cycle makes. It doesn't move straight away until you have driven about enough. Look at the screenshot above, look at biZz his tail is diagonally left from him. Make sure you follow it. Its best to overlap it like this:
Image

Do you see that my "tail" is just behind my light-cycle? You overlap like this so no-one can attack your space. This is called defending. Unless you have the absolute centre and your comfortably defending it, you must eventually attack. The best thing to do is to defend your space until one of the players close to you dies. Try and time it perfectly. It takes about 8 seconds for his dead wall to disappear. Try and expand your space by taking the new area of the zone that your dead opponent has left. Sometimes you might fail to take any space at the beginning of a round and no-one dies straight away. When your stuck in this situation you need to attack someone's space while they are defending. Look for a moment when someone is not following their tail closely. You'd be surprised at how many players make this mistake. If you see an opening get right in there and take as much of it as possible. Normally, depending on the player, your attack will panic them and they will crash into your wall. This brings up another point. If someone dies on your wall it makes a hole. Go back to the hole and cover it over so no-one can enter your space. If you leave it someone always comes in and decimates you.

When the zone gets very small you will need to maze but thats for another post :)

I hope this is helpful to people new to sumo. If you have any questions just post them here and I'll try and answer them as best as I can.

The Basics - Mazing
Welcome to my guide on sumo. This is the next part of the guide and it deals with the fundamentals of mazing.

Some things to take note of:

I use the "custom" camera with 65 FOV (field of view) and I use 0.2.8 version of the game. I have the floor textures disabled, I have reflection on. Most people find this looks strange but I am used to it and I wouldn't be able to maze very well without it. I am terrible at grammar and punctuation. Ok now that your aware of these things read on...

I would like to mention before starting this guide that it doesn't matter if you singlebind (have 1 key for right and 1 for left) or double (2 for each direction), triple (3 for each direction) or quad (4 for each direction). Everything here can be done regardless of your setup (at the very minimum you'll need singlebinds obviously :P).

The Fundamental Moves

"The Triple"

The name of this move doesn't mean you need to triplebind! Although for new players sinblebinding this move will result in a much looser result than the tightness you see in the video. Beyond turning left or right this is one of the simplest moves you can do. You simply hit Right, Right, Right, Left or Left, Left, Left, Right. Check out the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF4NeVDUEo8

"The Reverse Triple" aka "Inverted Triple"

Another fundamental move that some players take a while to learn. Its not as easy as the normal triple because it requires good timing or you can die. It goes: Left, Right, Right, Right or Right, Left, Left, Left. I suggest you practice both the left and right versions every single round. Just keep doing it no matter how many times it kills you. Eventually you'll be able to do it perfectly almost everytime. Some examples of reverse triples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEhQygE14Kg

Okay now I'm going to divide the my mazing tutorial into these sections:

Level 1 Mazes - for those who have just learned the basics described in this tutorial. I'll start off with "spirals" which are good for learning how to turn corners better.
Level 2 Mazes - keeping with the "spiral" mazing but now with reverse triples to be more efficient.
Level 3 Mazes - moving on from "spiral" to small patterns that involve triples and reverse triples.
Level 4 Mazes - starting to get more complicated. I will introduce "layering" which just means you go over a pattern several times.
Level 5 Mazes - now I will show some mazes that actually involve going inside a pattern. Welcome to tunneling!
Level 6 Mazes - more complex mazes that involve "setting up" and tunneling.
Level 7 Mazes - again complex mazes but this time with re-entering to keep a maze going in a loop.
Level 8 Mazes - the hardest mazes I know.

*DISCLAIMER*
This is a good time to mention a few things. There are many different opinions about what mazing is. There has been no committee or authoritative group (that I know of) that has declared what exactly mazing is. I know from experience that some people would only consider mazes that involve lots of tunneling and looping to be real mazes. I've been told as I maze that I'm not actually mazing "just making patterns over and over" or that spirals are not mazing etc. Its all down to opinion. I'm pretty much covering everything I can think of with this guide so surely theres enough here to keep everyone satisfied. I'm going through all the things in order of how I learned them. To me it makes sense. I don't want to argue with anyone if they don't agree.

Also you might wonder what gives me the right to teach? I freely admit that I am not the best or even close. There is probably 100 players that come before me in skill and strategy. I am not unstoppable. I can't just enter a server and dominate no matter who is playing. Most of the "elite" players probably don't even know me. I haven't won any TSTs or big sumo wars or Singlebind Tournaments and so on but I know enough to teach at least the very new players. I don't claim to be making the final greatest guide for mazing so please don't be offended when you look at my guide and you learn nothing from it it just means your better than me at this :)
Level 1 Mazing
"Level 1 Mazing" as I've creatively called it introduces something called a "spiral" and also 1 non-spiral pattern. Spiraling was something I used a lot when I was beginner to learn how to time corner turning well. I like spirals for a few reasons. One, they are simple enough to show to someone who is very new so they can copy and practice without too much struggle. For those reading who are more advanced can you remember the days when you looked at complex mazes and you couldn't dream of ever understanding how it worked nevermind the precision to do it? Spirals are not difficult to understand and therefore the beginner can jump right in and begin practicing. Second, a good spiral is actually a very efficient way to use space. You can use your whole length of wall (aka tail) with a spiral and then you can re-enter easily because of the simple design, although I won't be covering re-entering in this level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf6L2qS1i58

So thats a simple spiral. I apologise if you don't like how I have reflection for the walls or the extremely small FOV (field of view) I use. Notice that I make a large square box. It helps at this stage to keep your spirals square (all sides of the walls equal in length). The reason for this is because you want to get into a rhythm with your corner turning. So concentrate on turning corners accurately (its better to overshoot a corner than to turn early and hit it) and not touching any walls, try and keep a gap between your bike and the wall your next to (you can still "grind" by being close to a wall but not touching it). When you have went around the square a few times cut across when your in the middle (study the video to see what I'm talking about). You can make the spiral smaller than this if you feel confident enough and also you can keep going around inside of it as much as you want but you the more you do it the more difficult it will be to cut across and exit. Avoid the temptation to use a triple at this stage when your ready to exit, just stick to smoothly cutting across at the end, this way even if your a doublebinder this move will only require singlebinding.

For level 1 I want to also include a maze pattern that psy showed me when I was very new to sumo. Its not a spiral but it introduces the concept of making a shape that you go back into to complete (you'll understand when you see the video).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdPYyOG2fwo

I just do it over and over so you don't need to rewatch the video too many times. This pattern open ups the mind of a beginner who has no experience with mazing. You'll find out that a lot of mazes are just many variations of this concept but maybe with reverse triples and tunneling involved which requires more skill.

The video of this pattern leads me nicely to the topic of "tightness" and "looseness". Notice how in some of the patterns (like the first one for example) it seems kind of disconnected? But in the next I get closer to the walls as I go through it? I distinctly remember psy explaining this to me. He said something like "you want to kinda loosely triple". You don't just hit RRRL as fast as you can or LLLR as fast as you can but you do it "loosely" so your wrapping around walls more tightly thus making your maze, at least visually, better. I've found that singlebinding is easier for this effect but it can be done with double, triple and quad binding too. I will explain this more in later lessons when I talk about "tracing" or as I used to call it "symmetry" although tracing is a much better term as you'll see...

Anyway thanks for reading and I hope you've found this helpful! ;)
Level 2 Mazing

Level 2 is the shortest of all the levels because all it contains is 1 video on a full blown spiral with reverse triples and re-entering. At this stage you should practice and practice until you can do spirals without any dying. Then you can move on to Level 3 where I leave spirals behind and start showing some proper mazing patterns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZnJ3DrqV4Y

I realise its a bit sloppy but I wanted to this in 1 recording rather than spending 20 mins vainly taking many recordings just to get the nicest one. Theres not much to be said about what you do, the video says it all. Study the video and practice.

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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

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Word wrote:
sinewav wrote:Sumo doesn't have a strategy guide. Just stay in the circle. It's one of those things you just have to pick-up through playing it. Spend some time in spectator mode watching good players and you'll get better, faster.
There's a text by Durka on Ww forums
Lies!

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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by Word »

The Ww posts - i deleted the smilies and [img] tags because of the forums' limit.
(some image links seem to be dead)
The Return wrote:This guide is not to "support 1v1ing" if you do 1v1 you should do it in multi, away from the team game ctf.

Rubber usage: it is important to always have your rubber in mind, the less rubber you use the better. So try not to use rubber until you have to, even when i speed up, i just double bind left, then right (this method is better than tripling or the left left right or right right left method because it doesn't use any rubber and still gains an acceptable amount of speed). The overall goal is to save your rubber till you can trap someone with it and score a fast kill, then let it die down and do it again.


Turning: One of the questions you have to think about in 1v1s is: "How much do i turn, when do i turn?" One thing you have to do is make sure not to "over abuse" turning. Keep your turning down to a minimum, use it to kill, camp, and escape ONLY, why? because each time you turn your speed decreases, why would you want to decelerate when most games are won by going faster? As for the second part, "when do i turn?" turn when you can
1. Gain the upper hand by turning.
2. Escape from a trap.
3. Avoid being trapped.
4. Camp.
5. Kill.
The reason kill is last on the list is because it is the last thing you need to think about, most 1v1s are won not because you are amazing and the other person sucks, but because they made a mistake, and lost. This means kill is not your first priority, because they can kill themselves without you ;D.


Gaining the "upper hand.": It is important to always have an edge over your opponent, this edge is not gained by skill but by positioning. You want to have the ability to cut your opponent off. The easiest way to gain this ability is by speed, remember the acceleration movement from the first section? Make sure you use it to its full ability (you do this because it costs you NO rubber, it can only benefit you). Another way to gain the upper hand will be shown in the next section.

The easy escape: The hardest time to escape is when you have two jagged walls poking at you. These two "jagged walls" are made when you and your opponent work together to trap you. You can avoid this challenging scenario by simply not turning before getting trapped. If you don't turn, they cant catch something jagged and make your escape impossible. think of it this way, if your in a box with all straight lines people will trap you with a double bind, you can follow their movement easily and catch them, however if your in a box with "jagged" lines they can catch something jagged and kill you. This gives yet another reason to only turn when necessary.

Tail control: The speed of your tail is controlled by the speed of your lightcycle. For this section i will use the equation TS=LS (Tail speed=lightcycle speed). The ability to control how long can keep your tail in one place is not realized by most of the ctf community. If you trap someone and they are about to get out, and you are going very fast, turn a bunch and slow down, the sudden change in your tail speed (which happens to be the speed that the box surrounding your opponent goes down) may very well kill them. This adds the final reason for turning, tail control.

I hope this helped, good luck to all of you.
Leviathan wrote:hey its levi! i am currently the team leader for Ww clan regular Ctf. In the past i led the MAC team.

Great 1v1 players dont make great teams. If you have a team of pure 1v1 players you're not going to win, the reason is simple, the players dont work together well. There is no I in team.

The teams that win in the Ctf tournies and will continue to win are the teams with the players who know how to work together. I am going to, in this post give you the strategies that these players use the most effectivly.

#1. The support possition
In Ctf tournys the usual amount of players are 4 per team. the obvious way to play them would be 2 offence 1 defence and 1 spawner.
Offencive players: always are doing something, attacking the flag, killing the enemies "midline" to score points. Or ganking the defender.
Defencive players: this player always has his/her hands full. whether they are defending the flag or just waiting for an enemy to come to close. They must always do something if they want the team to win.
The Respawner: This player, contrary to the others, is rarely doing his job, not because everyone who plays respawner is purely lazy. But because on a good team respawns rarely need to happen.

So everyone except the respawner always is doing something, so why not have the respawner do an extra job, there is no use to having him sit in the spawn point camping all day.

The job that was quickly accepted was the support position. the position was made to utilize the respawner and to help the defender as well.

How it works: The player hovers near the defence. when an enemy comes he/she comes off. and then comes closer to the defence as soon as the enemy offence grinds. The supports job is to kill the enemy offender by pressing him closer to the defender while the defender pushes out. A good support can kill people in a matter of seconds in this manner.

The second responsibility of the support is to respawn the team. However, they should only respawn if they are not helping the defender.

#2. The start
The start of each round is arguably the most important part of the round. Lets say the team your on suicides instantly. This gives the other team a immediate 2-0 win for the round. and if they're already winning it can drain your teams moral and lose you the game. It can be worse if one player survives. Because if that player decides not to suicide the other team can easily keep him alive and just do "flag runs" to score massive points.

For each team the start has a different strategy, the team developes it as time goes by to be the most effective for themselves.

#3. Suicides
Yes! suicides can be a wonderful idea but only in certain cercumstances.
Its the final match of the tournament, your team is up by 4 points. Your only player left is the defender. But he stays alive and goes to respawn. The other team grabs an easy flag, suddenly, your team is tied for the win.

Now what if he suicided.
Its the final match of the tournament, your team is up by 4 points. Your only player left is the defender. He quickly kills himself. The other team cant get the flag back to their base in time to score. Now your team is up 3 points still. A huge lead if the team knows how to use it well.

#4. The "lose your honor" strategy.
This strategy should never be used. it was only used in one case by the Wild West team when one of their players had to go. and later in the tournament it was used back at them to lose them the tourny.

This is the easiest strategy to use. It involves getting ahead by 10 points winning by 1 point.

The first round is the most important leave one defender and have your teamates hole. Steal flags and kill players till your team is up by 10 points.

scoreboard: 10-0

2nd round: have your entire team suicide, if you are not up by 10 points then finish the point scoring and die.

scoreboard 10:2

3rd round: suicide

scoreboard 10:4

4th round: suicide

scoreboard 10:6

You win!

this strategy is highly disliked by the community because of its unfairness to the other team. It is STRONGLY DISCOURAGED.

The strategy works simply because the +2 points the other team scores isnt enough to catch up to your teams points without extra points for scoring flags or kills. which they dont have enough time to do.

Hope this helps every1!
Leviathan wrote:In ctf you encounter a lot of game play types. You see teams where they play def only, or blitz teams, or even pure attack teams, it is important to have your team prepared to face off against these types of teams.

The best way to react to something when you dont know what its going to do is to be prepared for anything. The best way to do this is to have a strat caller. The strat caller will shout out what the team should be doing and then the team reacts, however, a strat caller cant be the only one making up strategies. the team has to be able to react on their own.

The start of the match:
At the start of the match it is a good idea to play a balanced team, 1 support 1 def 1 attack 1 midfield. This is the best way to start because it is easy to change how you play.

The second round:
Once you have evaluated what the team has done in the first round you will want to switch strategies. Some easy counters are shown here

Other team type|Your teams counter
Defensive team | Hover around their defence until one makes a mistake then blitz
Balanced team | Stick to your original strategy, if your team is good enough you will win
Offensive team | Fall back on defence, play a 3/1 (3 def 1 att)
Blitz team | Play a 3/1 again but this time keep one of your supports helping the attack if possible

Updated later when i remember what else i was gonna say :\
The secret of flexibility:
Leviathan wrote:Metagame=Any strategy used to achieve victory in a video game, can sometimes include out-of-game information to help achieve victory.

There have been only 4 positions played for a while in ctf: (they are links, click them to be taken to a guide on how to play each.)
1. Attack
2. Midline
3. Support
4. Defence

The positions balance each other out, that's why playing on a team with all of the positions is called a 1-1-1-1 or balanced.
If your strat caller decides to switch positions there are only a few options:
1. 2-2 (2 def 2 attack)
2. 1-3 (1 def 3 attack)
3. 3-1 (3 def 1 attack)
4. 0-4 (0 def 4 attack, NOT SUGGESTED)
5. 4-0 (4 def 0 attack)
When you don't play balanced you usually don't have the support or midline positions, however your strat caller may choose to change how you play a setup (for instance instead of a 2-2 have a 1-1-2 [1 attack 1 midline 2 def]).

One of the things that makes the ctf metagame different from the say, fortress metagame is that in ctf the positions change constantly.

One of the most brutal strategies played so far has been a 4-0 blitz, this is achieved when you start with everyone back and quickly switch to a 1-3 when you don't think the opposing defense is ready.

The 4-0 blitz however is not the "most powerful" strategy, this is because like most games the ctf metagame constantly changes, even though maybe less than those other games.

So get out there and make your own combo's!
Ok now here essays about the position-types:

Attack:
Leviathan wrote:There are many types of attacking in ctf, however, this guide will only cover the most used one's. The guides purpose is to discover why certain attacks work, how defenses can stop them, and the key elements in a attack.

Attack type 1.

This attack is used by most of the tron community. It's common name is Squeezing. It is acheived by rapidly double binding the defenders walls till the defender overcommits on his grind and crashes on a double bind.

Why it works:
1. Good defenses like to expand their defence instead of shrinking all the time, so since squeezing leaves no room for a defender to expand, they end up killing themselves trying.
2. sometimes because of views grinds can be hidden, there have been times where i have been defending and suddenly died because I didn't notice there was a wall there.

Why it doesn't work:
1. on defenses such as the "Munster" defense, where you stay in the box at all times and don't expand, there is no chance of the defender being caught on one of the double binds, thus making the attack useless.

Key element: stop the defender from expanding, using hidden traps.

Attack type 2:
This type is called the slingshot, it is used by me as well as other more experienced members of the ctf community. it involves speeding up and Sling-shoting yourself between the enemy and his tail at the exact right time.

Why it works:
1. Most defenders cant follow their tail perfectly, so there is always a little room for someone going faster to squeeze in between him/her and their tail.
2. The sudden "Onslaught" of this attack makes it hard for the defense to prepare for it.

Why it doesn't work:
1. Many times the attacker goes to fast to control themselves and crashes into the defense.
2. A good defense can cover his tail, making this attack useless.

Key element: Speed and surprise, sliding between the defense and his/her tail.

Attack type 3:
This attack is a combination of the 2 above it. You keep the defense from expanding by grinding around his defense, but keep your speed up so that if he leaves an opening you can get through easily. In this attack you want to grind the same direction the defense is going.

Why it works:
1. The defense cannot leave an opening in its tail and it cannot expand, however, a good defense can survive till he has nowhere to go.
2. The attack covers both key points of the other attack styles.

Why it doesn't work:
1. As stated above, a good defense can survive for a long time under this type of attack.

Key elements: See above.
Midline:
Leviathan wrote:Mid-lining is not one of the most highly disputed subjects of organized game play. Therefore this guide will be straight forward with few variations.

First of all in capture the flag you score 4 points for every flag, 1 point for every kill, and 2 points for every round won.
Therefore if you hole and get back safely you earn 3 points (4-1=3)
A mid-liners job is to:
1. Hole the other team so the attacker can get the flag
2. make "ziplines" (you do this by making a straight line for your teammate to grind on so that you teammate can get the flag back to the base faster.)
3. score quick kills

For all 3 of these things it is very important you are going fast. Therefore the mid-liner should always be the person who can handle speed the best on the team.

A mid-liners job is NOT to sit in the middle and fight 1v1's against the other team. Here's a simple equation to prove it.

A good 1v1'r will score a kill mabye every 15 seconds. Let x mean the score and y mean 1 second.

x+((1/15)y)

Now lets say a good team scores a flag with holing and ziplines every 30 seconds

x+(3/30)y)

obviously if you simplify 3/30 you get 1.5/15 which is higher than 1/15 in the first equation.
In other words a player who is 1v1'ing scores 33% less points than a team that is good at holing and ziplines. 33% of a score in ctf is ALOT considering the max score is 100, if your team only did 1v1's at the rate suggested in the equation, they would end up with 66 points by the time the other team who is using ziplines/holing got 100.


-levi
Support:
Leviathan wrote:The support possition
In Ctf tournys the usual amount of players are 4 per team. the obvious way to play them would be 2 offence 1 defence and 1 spawner.
Offencive players: always are doing something, attacking the flag, killing the enemies "midline" to score points. Or ganking the defender.
Defencive players: this player always has his/her hands full. whether they are defending the flag or just waiting for an enemy to come to close. They must always do something if they want the team to win.
The Respawner: This player, contrary to the others, is rarely doing his job, not because everyone who plays respawner is purely lazy. But because on a good team respawns rarely need to happen.

So everyone except the respawner always is doing something, so why not have the respawner do an extra job, there is no use to having him sit in the spawn point camping all day.

The job that was quickly accepted was the support position. the position was made to utilize the respawner and to help the defender as well.

How it works: The player hovers near the defence. when an enemy comes he/she comes off. and then comes closer to the defence as soon as the enemy offence grinds. The supports job is to kill the enemy offender by pressing him closer to the defender while the defender pushes out. A good support can kill people in a matter of seconds in this manner.

The second responsibility of the support is to respawn the team. However, they should only respawn if they are not helping the defender.
Defense:
Monkey D. Luffy wrote:Defence in CTF… it’s more than a job.. more than a hobbie..more than a night with Ashley Twins.. more than a question of LIFE OR DEATH!!!! ROFL jk...
This topic introduce differents types of defences in CTF with their pic, strenghs, weakness, advices, tips to broke it, level to make it, and i hope that will be useful for futures defenders.or/and attackers.

:nana:

I start by my defs ( :oops: )



Monkster Def (What :lol: )



nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807210950494130524.png

RAM vs Eagle Eye in challenge!

nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807210951334130533.png


My baby ( 8) ). Many players use it actually, I’m very proud of this def.

Level: Medium

Double blinding style
How do it: (note: left/right abcdef: defaults keys) – AB/CD , AB/CD, AB/CD... (faster or slowly)

Strenghts: Very close def, good speed control, good space control ,good view

Weakness: easy to hole, Rubber kill, not fun for players who attack ;P

Advice: - Watch your rubber!
- Don’t stick too much your wall

Tips: - Do the same moves that defenders
- Wait a mistake from him, try to find a gate (drive meadows of him)



Circle of death :twisted:


nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807210955314130559.png

Level: Medium

How do it: A/B, A/B, A/B, ...

Strenghts: Dangerous for players who attack, very close

Weakness: The space is quickly reduced, Rubber kills

Advice : - The shape of your circle depends on your speed!
- The flag has to be in the middle to obtain a perfect circle

Tips: - Don’t give space to the defender
- Be patient and wait that the space is reduced

Generally this def becomes a micro def:


Micro def

nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807210957094130567.png

The def wich gives me the most of fun!

Level: Hard

Double blinding style
How do it: AB/CD, AB/CD, AB/CD ...

Strenghs: You can trap easily your ennemies, holes can be easily covered, Ennemies become crasy XD

Weakness : Zoom effect:/ , flag cut,

Advice: - Try to dont cut the flag! :bash: , if you cut it: return behind and go past again by top
- Trap your ennemies very busy
-You can you can make staffs, (wall) more or less big: Highs staffs: slowly move, shorts staffs: fast moves. And don’t let your def open :O!

Tips: - Be wary of appearances! It’s not because it’s a small defence, that it’s easy to take the flag: don’t play to the kamikaze!!! Be calm and cause the defender , take his space, and find the gate by anticipating his moves.


Egyptian def

nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807211001124130591.png


nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807211001494130596.png


Level: Hard

Triple blinding style
How to make: The same moves that Monkster Def, but wih 3 keys for each hands: ABC/DEF, ABC/ DEF, ABC/DEF... faster or slowly

Strenghts: The attackers can be trapped by this strange square, good space control

Weakness : Very bad view ! :shock: , Tronbike is slow, this def is not close, and VERY dangerous for the defender. ( Suicides)

Advices: - If your tronbike is blocked, just double blind fast
- Don’t stick too much your wall :tu:
- Squares must not be too much gripped.

Tips : Go in the same way of the defender ( he can’t watch behind), and enter in the def



Teir’s def

nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807211005564130623.png

nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807211006384130631.png

ROFL WyattEarp! He is making a hole! This bot is so human...:lol:

Level: Medium

One hand style (h)
How to make: A/B, B/A, A/B, B/A, A/B, B/A ...

Strenghs: VERY good view, close def, good space control: slow reduction of the space.

Weakness: Easy to hole, not totally close .

Advice: Play with your left hand and watch with your right hand. Try to close the def because the attacker can anticipate your movements.

Tips: - If it’s not close: driven meadows of him, he must panic :jedi: , do the same moves of the defender
- If it’s close: take the space, reduce his def


Minxy’s def

nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807211011474130661.png


Nice def ( 8) )

Level: Medium

Double blinding style
How to make: AB/CD, CD/AB, AB/CD, CD/AB ....

Strenghs: Very dangerous against ennemies.. if you touch this def.. BOOM! :punch2: Lol, like you can see on the pic, it’s very easy to be trap by these moves.

Weakness: Holes again (always? No...), not very good control of space (these movements use a lot of wall), slow bike

Advice: - Watch you rubber!
- Don’t stick too much your moves, take your time
- Take a little space because this def use a lot of wall.

Tips : - Anticipate his movements: Look the end of the wall, go straigh in the defence at the perfect moment (don’t be afraid to die) and enter in the def. If it’s not very close, you have all your chances :!:


Shoebat’s def


nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807211015134130688.png


Yes the best player in 1vs1 can def.. I’ve seen him one time in def.. thats rocks! :P

Level: Hard

Double blinding style
How make it: Go straight and do the same moves that micro def (faster)

Strenghs: Very close def,
Weakness: The space is quickly reduced,

Advice: More your moves are fast, more yours shalls (wall) are short = more space
Tips: Any tips, just be patient




The Maze from *



nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807211143154131518.png

Levi Vs Noodle!

nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/28/080728015621278435.png

3 users: Levi, Shadow, Squirg, I don’t know who create this def

Level: Very Hard

Strenghs: Ennemies become crasy, holes are not useful,

Weakness: Rubber Kills, you can be trapped by the attacker

Tips : Don’t Go in ! :bash: Watch his moves, and prevent from going on by blocking exits. If you are crasy, you can go in , it’s funny and maybe you can take flag ;)


Prickly Def


nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/28/080728104152269599.png

nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/28/080728104300649244.png

Level: Easy

How make it: A/CD/A, A/CD/A, A/CD/A...

Strenghts: Attackers can't stick you , you can trap them easily , good speed control

Weakness: Not very close, bad space control,

Advice: - You can make hight and short spines: hight for speed, and short for take the space.
- More you have spines, more your defence is small.
- Try to close your def by outstripping your tail.

Tips: - Go on the other way that the defender, watch the tail and wait an entry.



Freestyle Def



nsa02.casimages.com/img/2008/07/21/0807211021054130734.png


This type of def includes a various style of defenders, who don’t do the same move in their def: for example: Sine.wav, Mr Orange, Garissimo, Dimi, norT, Green bobin, Omega...and Bobo The Blitz!
Each have his own style, and the solidity of the defence depends many of the skills of the defender.

Tips : All tips used before can be useful against these defs.

I hope that everybody understood me, and I invite all players to introduce their defence!
Later
The REAL strategies are still in our members area, of course ;)

Word
Reverse Adjust Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 4163
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by Word »

Aaaannnnd finally, fortress:
Word wrote: Taken from the backup of Concord's blog, my favourite articles
(haven't sorted them but you'll easily figure out the correct order
zomgholers.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/double-grinding-yes-not-how/
zomgholers.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/filling-the-grid-part-1
zomgholers.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/sweepers-win
zomgholers.wordpress.com/2009/01/09/attack-tips-and-strategies-part-2
zomgholers.wordpress.com/2008/11/29/get-in-a-defensive-shape-pt1
zomgholers.wordpress.com/2009/01/05/attack-tips-and-strategies-part-1/
zomgholers.wordpress.com/2008/11/29/get-in-a-defensive-shape-pt2/
zomgholers.wordpress.com/2008/12/21/sweeping-a-little-advice/
this image shows you the classic way to lock center
img46.imageshack.us/img46/8463/adsd.png
here's a video from uNk that explains no point holing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXsjMYdFf24
and this one is from me and shows a simple center attack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a045vffsEBQ

here are some additional tips from me. I don't know if its already in the texts i linked, because I read them quite a while ago :P


You know what the lagometer is, right? The white triangle that surrounds your enemies and shows you the true position of their cycles. You can see it even better if you type "/console predict_objects 1" (without the quotes, in normal chat). I have it turned off, but perhaps that will help some of you.

Since the cycle is always a bit further then you think, the trail end is too. That means if you attack, you shouldn't just try to kill the cycle, you should try to find the trail end and use the gap you can't see. Hard to explain, and most attackers still don't know that, but after a few successful cuts you'll get the principle :P

When you attack, avoid to close yourself in when you don't have any room. In the best case you always leave an exit for yourself. You should always try to take out the sweepers first so you can hole/attack and have enough freedom to get speed, but if if you have the chance you can kill the def of course.
Sometimes you can even use the sweepers to hole. That's why the sweepers should always keep some distance from the def and try to kill the enemies elsewhere. Holing early can have 2 effects:
1) the enemies are distracted and everyone panics and dies. then it all depends on your best sumoers inside the zone.
2) the enemies stay cool and kill one after another and absorb your entire team.

from my experience i know that 3v1 never works if 3 players attack at the same time and dont hole. They don't have enough room. 2v1 works if the 2 both stick to their half. and you can win an 1v1 only if you have enough patience, provided that you're the attacker. the def has always an advantage.
And you should be good at basic mathematics :P
every point matters, winning a round (with zone) means 10 points.
If it's round 10 (of 10) and your team has 90 points while the others have 78 you'd win it even if you give up your zone. you just need to make sure that your whole team stays alive.
The no point hole is useful when the score is 90-98. If you're the team with the 90, do an nph and you win. PRU is sort of famous for a comeback we had vs TX. Our score was 68-98 and we just stayed all alive for 4 rounds. :P

Staying alive (= player advantage) is the most important thing. Just don't take silly risks, don't follow them everywhere. If you're not sure about a certain move, don't do it. When you try to kill someone, turn back immediately afterwards. And if you happen to have boxed someone, don't let him out again.

note: all this is the knowledge that is available for everyone. There's more, but you have to get hold of that without someone else's help

User avatar
sinewav
Graphic Artist
Posts: 6205
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:37 am
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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by sinewav »

Nice job getting all those threads from lagtest.net. I forgot about that stuff. I guess I never paid attention back then because all that "strategy" was obvious to me. And that quote from Luffy makes no sense since all the images are gone. (notice there is no sine.wav def? haha, people hate me.)

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DDMJ
Reverse Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 1881
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:15 am
Location: LA, CA, USA, NA
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Re: Rules for CTF, Sumo and Ladle

Post by DDMJ »

Perhaps someone can sift through all of Word's posts and make it into a new Wiki page(s).

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