Fort Start

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Cheese
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Fort Start

Post by Cheese »

I have not really believed in the "center grind at start" strategy. Its seems to me that people crash cause they are going to fast, and there is no where for them to go. But it seems to me that you will get kicked or suspended for not center grinding. So I thought I would come up with a strategy that MAY be better. I am not a fort pro, spending my time mostly in CTF and high rubber shooting, so I am not sure it will work, but it might.

Image

So only the defense and one attacker grind up center, to the front of their base. Then, the attacker splits right, and the defense splits left to start defense. If the other team grinds center, they will have people splitting off both left and right. The other teams players who split to their left will be blocked by the attackers. The players on the other team who split to their right will be blocked by the defense.

Just wondering if this would work.

thanks,
Cheese!

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Z-Man
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Re: Fort Start

Post by Z-Man »

Probably not. There is going to be a huge gaping hole in the defense when the walls start vanishing. You'll need some extra planning in there to prevent early ganking.

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ElmosWorld
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Re: Fort Start

Post by ElmosWorld »

Enter a team in ladle and try it out.
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Jip
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Re: Fort Start

Post by Jip »

Some teams using grind variations. But since the "center grind" is the most common (and for that the most practiced) grind we use it in regular matches.

Cheese
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Re: Fort Start

Post by Cheese »

Yeah...Its just that I am tired of playing in the mega fort server and trying to figure out what side my eight other team-mates are on to split...center grinding makes it way to slow to get to the other base, so the defence is already up. It seems that we center grind cause its easy...there must be a better way. I will keep trying to figure it out.

thanks,
CHEESE! :D

Cheese
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Re: Fort Start

Post by Cheese »

Hey, I was just thinking about it and I came up with a great idea. We do a normal center grind, but we don't grind each other. We split early, way before the other team does. The defense blocks the gap in the center that our non-grinding strategy has created...would that work?

thanks,
CHEESE! :D

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sinewav
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Re: Fort Start

Post by sinewav »

Cheese wrote:would that work?
Yes, but it doesn't work that well (I've tried it with a team). The problem is, even though you can block attackers from getting in, you still wind up having to grind your teammates anyway -- or else you get out-flanked and the defense has a hard time setting up. The end result is you end of the grind is cluttered, defensive, and dangerous to your teammates.

But keep thinking of new ideas! You never know when you'll come up with something that looks crazy, but works. That's the beauty of Fortress. After thousands and thousands of rounds, we are still coming up with new ways to beat each other.

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2020
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Re: Fort Start

Post by 2020 »

try them
:)

sure
players have been kicking these kind of ideas about
but few get a team willing enough to try
and even when that happens
to try it properly and not judge prematurely

i still believe a team that can chop and change its launch
and introduce quite radically different splits
present opponents with real problems

good luck :)
hold the line

KingNoob1
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Re: Fort Start

Post by KingNoob1 »

It is really just how you or your team wants to do it. It is normally played as grinding center and splitting just before the other team, and that is the rules in open fort severs.

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Lord Pein
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Re: Fort Start

Post by Lord Pein »

For this way to work, you will really need to find a way for the walls to be out of the zone before the defense gets around to them. This could possibly be done by making the defense do something to take more time to make it around the first time (and then obviously correcting that next time around).

I don't see why this cannot be a viable strategy with a little bit of tweaking (and please tell me that is not the actual shape the defense is supposed to hold).
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Goodygumdrops
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Re: Fort Start

Post by Goodygumdrops »

Cheese wrote:I have not really believed in the "center grind at start" strategy. Its seems to me that people crash cause they are going to fast, and there is no where for them to go. But it seems to me that you will get kicked or suspended for not center grinding. So I thought I would come up with a strategy that MAY be better. I am not a fort pro, spending my time mostly in CTF and high rubber shooting, so I am not sure it will work, but it might.

Image

So only the defense and one attacker grind up center, to the front of their base. Then, the attacker splits right, and the defense splits left to start defense. If the other team grinds center, they will have people splitting off both left and right. The other teams players who split to their left will be blocked by the attackers. The players on the other team who split to their right will be blocked by the defense.

Just wondering if this would work.

thanks,
Cheese!

enemies will have a lot more speed since you turned so much at the beginning and your grind took longer to start

your left side is likely going to be vulnerable to early-round torps since your team is 1) grinding off to the right and 2) probably not going fast enough to block the speed your enemies will have
The once and future "I told you so."

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vov
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Re: Fort Start

Post by vov »

Goodygumdrops wrote: enemies will have a lot more speed since you turned so much at the beginning and your grind took longer to start

your left side is likely going to be vulnerable to early-round torps since your team is 1) grinding off to the right and 2) probably not going fast enough to block the speed your enemies will have
Why not try this then, there we got a sweep, too, blocking the enemy, making torps harder and the occasional center attack between 1+2 gets blocked...
Best would be, then, to mix this strategy up with the "normal" one to completely surprise the other team. They will most likely do something stupid as for example trying to get through the blocked gap at the right side or a "center-attack" on the grinds ending in a corner.
strategy.jpg
Lord Pein wrote:For this way to work, you will really need to find a way for the walls to be out of the zone before the defense gets around to them.
If no one dies, the walls will be out due o the speed they get, making a late center-attack much harder than at a normal center grind.
If someone dies, well... then there's a problem (but at the "normal" one, too)

Well, it could work or end in a fail, but why not try it? :D

Word
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Re: Fort Start

Post by Word »

Yeah, your opponent will be surprised when they can grind the whole time without having to split. your position 2 is simply too slow, and if you send 3/4 to help him I'm certain you'd get the same result. not to mention that your def is damaged twice as much as normally if one of your mates dies. two weak sides = fail
nobody needs to use a center attack when he can enter the zone from all other sides.

And you give away your own chance to decide the round with a working center attack.
furthermore, it can't be difficult to outgrind this little barrier ("close"), even if 3/4/5/6 lock it once more you can just use the new gaps above it (analogous to a normal center attack). they can try to lock all these gaps but that will again result in them being too slow to block their opponents. At the same time the def is probably too fast to close its circle in a proper way if it really tries not to leave any gaps (nothing that the use of brakes could solve). Again, this makes it easy for any fast attacker to enter and gank.

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vov
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Re: Fort Start

Post by vov »

Word wrote:yeah, your opponent will be surprised when they can grind the whole time without having to split. your position 2 is simply too slow, and if you send 3/4 to help him I'm certain you'd get the same result. not to mention that your def is damaged twice as much as normally if one of your mates dies. two weak sides = fail
nobody needs to use a center attack here when he can enter the zone from all other sides.
Why is pos. 2 too slow, he grinds, can block or center...
And why is def damaged twice when someone dies? I'd think it would be damaged half as we already have a sweep who blocked late center attacks and both sides of a "normally" attacking team.
They can't grind through, since one is def, one will split off anyway to sweep, at least one to the side where the bunch is coming from their left. Probably one to seal the center, 2-3 actually grinding through - not enough to torp and gank quickly.
Word wrote:And you give away your own chance to decide the round with a working center attack.
furthermore, it can't be difficult to outgrind this little barrier ("close"), even if 3/4/5/6 lock it once more you can just use the new gaps above it (analogous to a normal center attack). they can try to lock all these gaps but that will again result in them being too slow to block their opponents. At the same time the def is probably too fast to close its circle in a proper way if it really tries not to leave any gaps.
Exactly the way you want the enemy team to attack, "this" team can attack, too. except it does not end in a corner like them (which is outside the def, too :P ). Thank you, you've saved me the time to explain this.
If the close and sweep job is done right, the enemy team would have to sacrifice 2 players to get into the zone

In my opinion, you have not understood it, really.

Edit: thanks, sylla, mixed that up, sorry :P
Last edited by vov on Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

syllabear
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Re: Fort Start

Post by syllabear »

position 2 is on the left of position 1 just fyi (your diagram has them with pos 2 on the right)
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