Best Defender - 2010?

Anything about how you get those awesome core-dumps, or why you don't get them...
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compguygene
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by compguygene »

Wow, I ever since I have met you on the grids, Phyto, I have always thought you would make and awesome defender in Fortress if you felt like it. I think it is interesting to have seen you played sumo a few times and gotten core dumps but not good score because of the Sumo scoring system! But I can completly envision you defending a Fortress Zone and people just dying on your walll as you defend in a manner of your own style!
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Titanoboa
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by Titanoboa »

Sorry emmy, I think luffy just took your title (on my personal list anyway).

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MrsKsr
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by MrsKsr »

+1
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-*inS*-
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by -*inS*- »

we should look at the stats and check who gets holed most

anyone who step defs sucks -100% undeniable truth
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owned
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by owned »

So you suck?

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Phytotron
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by Phytotron »

Lackadaisical wrote:The step-defense is the closest thing to a slightly rotated square really (except for the corners you only make 'steps' towards the outside), and I am pretty sure it's something different than you're talking about pytho.
Phyto! http://www.yourdictionary.com/phyto-prefix :)

Anyway, this is "step defense," right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX6DEGDwa7Y

That's exactly what I was referring to by a "zig-zagged circle." Of course, how frequent and small those zigs and zags are can vary, can it not? (The link to that old post of mine went into a bunch of other stuff beyond that, like messing around inside the zone. Ignore that as relating to the subject of "step defense;" I was only pointing to that link as a date reference.) So, yeah, what you guys have now termed "step defense" has been around since just about the beginning of the Fortress game mode.

Indeed, I don't get why some folks seem to treat that as some sort of ingenious invention. It seemed rather obvious to me (back in, apparently, late 2005). You have a circular zone you want to encircle with your walls, but with a cycle that can only turn 90°. Hello.

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Titanoboa
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by Titanoboa »

Phytotron wrote:Indeed, I don't get why some folks seem to treat that as some sort of ingenious invention. It seemed rather obvious to me (back in, apparently, late 2005). You have a circular zone you want to encircle with your walls, but with a cycle that can only turn 90°. Hello.
Hahaha. Well said.

insa: no matter how much you or all step defenders suck, you're still the best step defender around. :P on my list.

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DDMJ
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by DDMJ »

Lackadaisical wrote:If I recall correct durka has been mentioned as the one who invented it when this discussion came up before. First time I've seen it used competitively was in the AFL fall season by sagelord, which was in 2007.
Yep, I actually used it first in the summer of 2007 during the mini AFL season Lucifer ran. Because I didn't want to defend anymore, I then taught SageLord who used it in the fall season. Then, when Sage didn't really want to defend anymore, I taught Curbside. It was like the passing of the baton. FoFo adapted it a while later and then SP started using it a lot, first, Psyko, for experimental purposes and then he taught insa and the rest is history.

Emmy is really good though and so is Luffy. They kind of have a similar style...at least from what I've seen, which isn't much.

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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by Olive »

I love the step defense. :mrgreen:
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Phytotron
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by Phytotron »

Durka may have "invented" the term, but the tactic (such that it is; I still don't get what the big deal is) itself has been around about as long as Fortress has existed. What, you guys think that between late 2005 and 2007 all anyone did was just make a basic square around the zone, or maybe just meander around like a dummy? Then suddenly Durka came along and spontaneously came up with this amazing, ingenious tactic? Come on. No one person "invented" it; it's just an obvious thing. I don't get where this alternate history and associated aggrandisement is coming from. It's just silly.

The sad fact is that, along with the boring stasis in configuration settings for Fortress, most of the strategies and tactics you guys employ in the regimented tedium that is Fortress has, as Lucifer pointed out, been around since shortly after Fortress was introduced (version 0.2.8.0). (A few minor exceptions, such as this "no-point hole," or the wall shrink hoopla, since there weren't configuration settings for those back then.) I tell you what, if you think Fortress is fun, you should go out and help bring back America's factory base. You'll love workin' on the line.


Hey, who invented putting boxes around other players in order to core dump them?

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DDMJ
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by DDMJ »

Phytotron, you haven't consistently played fortress enough for the past 4-5 years to notice all of the tactical changes and improvements that have gone on. Fortress is played completely differently than when it was first introduced in the fall of 2005 (I'm not sure of the exact date). The ideas and concepts may be very similar, but the art of executing certain tactics has changed dramatically.

Speed attacking is a prime example. It makes sense that if you see a small gap in the defender's tail, it would be much easier to break into the defense with a lot of speed. But, the way in which players use speed attacks are completely different nowadays. Zop's generic speed attack ruled the game for months and months until defenders adapted. Now, trying to do a "Zop" speed attack will almost always fail. The idea is the same, but the execution is not.

This constant adapting and modifying of different tactics is what has propelled fortress forward in a competitive sense. Sure, Lucifer might have had an idea what he was talking about 5 years ago. In fact, what he said makes sense mainly because fortress is such a simple game; 2 teams, 2 zones, first team to conquer or kill the other team wins. Teamwork, communication, etc. are all obvious facets of the game. However, the way in which players now utilize those facets are way different than back 5 years ago.

I guess the point I'm getting at is that it's rather ignorant to assume that all of today's current styles had to have been done before by someone.

Someone (or small group of people) invented the no-point hole. Sure, maybe the idea of "hey, maybe we can hole this defender but not lose any points" has come up before and maybe people had done it a few times on accident, but never was it really widely executed before and never on a consistent basis.

Defense has also evolved tremendously over the past 5 years. It has, there's no doubt about it. Garisimo used to often grind against the back wall, but that tactic hasn't been used in ages since its flaws were exploited but clever attackers. The idea's always been to make some sort of box around the zone so the other team can't get in, but the way in which these boxes (or rather, distorted boxes) are made has changed.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm not trying to go out of my way to prove that I "invented it" because I could care less about that. Just for historically purposes, when people inquire, it just seems fair to be able point to a specific time period and individual (or group of people) for acknowledgment (such as when people ask who invented "wild" fortress, people can say "ed, around the spring of 2006. Even though other people may have had the idea of making a fortress server with crazy maps, he was the one who ignited the frenzy.

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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by Mkay1 »

My first nph was around a year ago, back when I liked to tk. With that stated..a few times...I would tk an afk mate at the right distance from the defender, which got me a nice hole. at that moment I did not realize that it saved us 2points, it just made me giggle.

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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by Goodygumdrops »

DDMJ wrote:
Lackadaisical wrote:If I recall correct durka has been mentioned as the one who invented it when this discussion came up before. First time I've seen it used competitively was in the AFL fall season by sagelord, which was in 2007.
Yep, I actually used it first in the summer of 2007 during the mini AFL season Lucifer ran. Because I didn't want to defend anymore, I then taught SageLord who used it in the fall season. Then, when Sage didn't really want to defend anymore, I taught Curbside. It was like the passing of the baton. FoFo adapted it a while later and then SP started using it a lot, first, Psyko, for experimental purposes and then he taught insa and the rest is history.

Emmy is really good though and so is Luffy. They kind of have a similar style...at least from what I've seen, which isn't much.
it's so disgusting that you still aren't giving ace/skip credit for teaching you everything you know about def
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DDMJ
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by DDMJ »

Who in the world is Ace?

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teen
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Re: Best Defender - 2010?

Post by teen »

~"XzL.Ace?!
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