I dont understand...

Anything about how you get those awesome core-dumps, or why you don't get them...
genericuser
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I dont understand...

Post by genericuser »

Okay, i have murdered my fingers and thumbs playing Tron for years, and had recently got playing Fltron for the pass week or so. Soon after, i was looking for an update to the very, very aged game and discovered this awesome version.

But i find it hard to really appreciate this game too much online. For example, from the film and the old version, if you hit a wall, you die. Simple as. You could either sneakily make a player run into your wall or find a way to box them in. However, i am a little taken aback by this rubber business. I appreciate why it is there, as it mentions on the wiki its there for lagging,network reason. Fair enough, and it makes this grinding thing much easier and more fun, challenging and and makes matches last so much longer.

But if i try to box someone in (as is the only way to defeat someone unless im playing on one of the few, not so active "no rubber" servers) they always find a way out of the box. In old school tron, you just had to risk getting close enough to the wall to seal them in or hope they crashed while trying to escape. But when i do it here, even if i create a complex maze for them to attempt to escape, they just hit their brakes and take as long as they want trying to find a way out.

I dont understand how to seal a trap box - every time i hit the wall i just came out of and grind, the other person just grinds their way out of it too. Always find myself in situations where the box im in has been sealed by a more experienced player - how the hell do they do it? I mostly enjoy this game all the time, and only play the low rubber servers to recreate the old tron feel, and do enjoy the other modes like CTF, but how the hell do i seal a box after ive spent so long catching up to a player and made rapid moves to create a cage for them? Someone told me to "triple bind my keys" so i press three sets of left and right at the same time, but that does nothing! I myself enjoy trying to find my way out of a maze, but mostly end up getting trapped and unable to grind out. I would just like to know how to seal a box in a high rubber server.

Also, ive been searching this topic on these boards and discovered people who DONT appreciate boxing, i mean , how do they expect someone to win!?

Thanks for your help.

PS Im not moaning, i love this game.

syllabear
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by syllabear »

in most servers, if you want to good and properly seal a wall, you drive into it until you have used 90% of your rubber (preferably braking beforehand), then turn, grinding down the wall, until you have more available rubber. Then when you have a decent bit again, do the same, while already having grinded into the wall (so you have now grinded into it twice). Keep doing things like this, mix it up with turning back and forward, making interesting shapes, etc.
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sinewav
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by sinewav »

:) Welcome to the ArmagertronAD forums.

My advice: Forget about high rubber servers completely. I'd rather play against bots in "Shrunkland" than deal with n00bs and their ridiculous wall digging garbage. But then again, I'm also evangelical about low rubber, so don't let me spoil your fun, whatever that is.

Good luck, and hope to see you on the grid.

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Phytotron
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by Phytotron »

Right. Rubber was never intended to be set high (5+), let alone become a standard, a prominent "game mode," a feature, or a gameplay mechanic (all that "digging garbage"). But, unfortunately, pandora's box was opened years ago and the devs aren't going to put a cap on it. And, unfortunately, doesn't look like anything will be done about to reduce the "depth of grind," either. So, what you can do about it: Support sane servers.

Ignore the multi-binding, adjusting/180-grinding, and "no boxing/closing" zealots, too. Support sane players.

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compguygene
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by compguygene »

What's funny about all the complaints about High Rubber is this: There are lot's of players who play it! I am not going to get into some argument for/against High Rubber. I just want to point out the obvious, lots of people do play and enjoy High Rubber. I don't see anything wrong with people tinkering and playing with settings that some of you do not approve of. By the way, some of our best fortress/sumo players come from High Rubber as what they started out in. Its kind of funny, if you were a brand new player to the game, and were enjoying High Rubber, Capture the Flag, or other game types that the majority of people in this forum disapprove of, and came to this forum, you would be told how "wrong" you are to be playing as you are. I would submit to all of you, to look at the master list sometime, and see just how many players are enjoying these types of games. Then, please explain to me why we need to stop all these people from playing? Armagetron is bigger than just Fortress/Sumo/low rubber LMS! Sure, I bet the devs pretty much hate the way the rubber mechanic has been abused. I also bet they are happy people are playing the game anyway, however they please!
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sinewav
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by sinewav »

What's funny about all the complaints about heroin is this: There are lot's of people who use it! I am not going to get into some argument for/against heroin. I just want to point out the obvious, lots of people do use and enjoy heroin. I don't see anything wrong with people tinkering and playing with drugs that some of you do not approve of. By the way, some of our best writers/music artists come from heroin as what they started out in. Its kind of funny, if you were a brand new player to the game, and were enjoying heroin, cocaine, or other drug types that the majority of people in this forum disapprove of, and came to this forum, you would be told how "wrong" you are to be living as you are. I would submit to all of you, to look at the news sometime, and see just how many people are enjoying these types of drugs. Then, please explain to me why we need to stop all these people from dosing? Addiction is bigger than just crack/soma/pcp and LSD! Sure, I bet the dealers pretty much hate the way the shipment has been cut. I also bet they are happy people are playing the game anyway, however they please!

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compguygene
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by compguygene »

OK, fine. Compare HR to heroin. But, this is a videogame! I suppose that you won't be happy until such servers are banned and/or made impossible. Heck, while we are at it, let's just say Armagetron should only be about Fortress/sumo/"classic" and nothing else. After all, nobody that is worth anything would ever play anything else! Oh, and all those HR players have no business even playing! Is that how you feel?
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Tobe
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by Tobe »

/me reads compguy's siggy.

(btw that was a pretty funny, yet twisted, analogy)
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sinewav
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by sinewav »

compguygene wrote:I suppose that you won't be happy until such servers are banned and/or made impossible....Oh, and all those HR players have no business even playing! Is that how you feel?
Yes. Tron-like games are about smashing into walls and exploding on them, not caressing them. And for the record, I also think the rubber is too high in Sumo/Fortress.

Is there any way to make a special Arma release without all the crazy rubber code, or at least a minimal, fixed value? Maybe we can have a true "no rubber" server? I swear if I knew anything about programming I would do it myself, haha.

owned
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by owned »

compguygene wrote:OK, fine. Compare HR to heroin. But, this is a videogame! I suppose that you won't be happy until such servers are banned and/or made impossible. Heck, while we are at it, let's just say Armagetron should only be about Fortress/sumo/"classic" and nothing else. After all, nobody that is worth anything would ever play anything else! Oh, and all those HR players have no business even playing! Is that how you feel?
I don't think that sine actually thinks High Rubber is heroin. He was just using heroin as an example to point out the flaw in your logic.
But other than that, I agree with you. While I don't personally like High rubber as a game type not only because it takes little skill, but because of digging, I think it should exist just because there are a lot of people who want to play it.

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AI-team
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by AI-team »

LOL actually you shouldn't make fun of drugs but it's still very funny

@owned: nice amount of posts
  
 
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Phytotron
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by Phytotron »

Sine's initial response to Gene wasn't about comparing high rubber to heroin. It was to make this point: argumentum ad populum. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good or right. He could as easily have used junk food or low-brow television or pop music.

I would much prefer quality of servers and players over sheer quantity.

Secondly, you (Gene) are criticising us for supposedly running off new players (as though high rubber fans are a minority with nowhere to go), and also seemingly implying that new players automatically like high rubber. But, genericuser is evidently a new player who expressed confoundedness with high rubber, something completely justified as it doesn't make intuitive sense in a lightcycle game. I've encountered several such people—new players who wonder why they don't immediately (or imminently) 'splode on a wall, what the hell is with this "rubber" thing, and all these weirdo game modes. Although, not much on this forum, so additionally I don't know what you're talking about there, like this forum is some bastion of anti-high, pro-low rubber adherents.

And we welcomed him. Contrary to running him off, we validated his concerns and encouraged him to continue playing—just in better servers. Neither of us have ever told anyone to stop playing altogether (except maybe when talking trash, heh).

You think someone should have instead told him he was wrong for having the reaction and confusion he did, and then evangelised on behalf of high rubber, telling him to just get over his intuitive reaction and objection, conform to the popular culture, embrace high rubber and learn how to play it, and forget about that low rubber stuff? Like syllabear essentially did? Wouldn't that have been as bad as you what you claim we do?


Moreover, to repeat what I've said before, we have every right to advocate for or against what we want in and of this game, every bit as much as you do. (And run servers in accordance with that as well, not incidentally.) Our "video game ideologies" (which aren't identical, by the way, as you'll see later in this post) may be more restrictive in type than your all-inclusive, anything-goes view. That doesn't mean ours are less valid. (And at least mine sticks to some core concept of the game, the integrity of which I think has been corrupted; rather than just using lightcycles as a pretense and medium for coding hobbyism.) Again, imagine if the roles were reversed and you were in the present minority. Yet, you're still trying to silence us and act like we're the majority persecuting the minority. Huh?
compguygene wrote:[L]et's just say Armagetron should only be about "classic" and nothing else.
Fixed. :) As you know, I don't even think fortress and sumo have any business being in this game, unlike sinewav. But, of course, those "special game modes" are a separate subject from rubber. People just happen to make all the sumo and fortress servers near-clones of one another (something else I lament, as you also know).
sinewav wrote:Is there any way to make a special Arma release without all the crazy rubber code, or at least a minimal, fixed value? Maybe we can have a true "no rubber" server? I swear if I knew anything about programming I would do it myself, haha.
Rubber is all intertwined with the network latency stuff; its original purpose, after all. There would have to be something else developed to deal with that. Now, if someone were to finally give GLTron network capability...but, even there I reckon something would have to be thought up to compensate for latency. Yadda yadda. And while I dislike rubber, I do like the ability (or option thereof) to make very brief contact with a wall, Tetris-style. But you knew that. :)

AI-team wrote:LOL actually you shouldn't make fun of drugs
Uh, why? Are we going to hurt their feelings?

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sinewav
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by sinewav »

Phytotron wrote:It was to make this point: argumentum ad populum.
^^ This guy gets it. :D

Yeah, I remember by first time playing Arma and seeing people hit the walls and stop moving. I thought the game was bugged. And the first time I saw Fort I said to myself "wth is that spinning ring?" I mean, I thought it looked cool and the game was kind of fun but it really was a different game.

However, I really like team games. And since there are no outstanding team lightcycle games in Arma (except AoT Tron Exp), then we're left with the zone-based Fortress and CTF. I dealt with the stupid high-rubber and played CTF for a year while Fort waned in popularity (I also played on a different time schedule), but now I'm all about the Fort - and still hating all the rubber, haha.

But if someone wants to make a low/no-rubber team game, I'm all over it. That's why I played in that Russian server so much.

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compguygene
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by compguygene »

Well, points well taken.

And, as sometimes happens, I shoot my mouth off, am wrong, and need to admit as much! As to the idea of a need for a true low rubber team game, that is definitely something to think about.
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Concord
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Re: I dont understand...

Post by Concord »

We spend a lot of time thinking about it and we call it fortress.

Regardless of the dubious authenticity or lack of philosophical grounding for fortress in Tron, the gamemode is just good. It requires more teamwork than any other video game ever made. It's what good team sports would be if you took away the athletic components. It's just good.

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