The Fortress Guide

Anything about how you get those awesome core-dumps, or why you don't get them...
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Jonathan
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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by Jonathan »

_TIMEBASED was meant to live in the [0, 1] realm in the first place. Anything else is an invitation for serious whack.
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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by newbie »

looks like slower players have rubber advantage in fort/sumo
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Titanoboa
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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by Titanoboa »

newbie wrote:looks like slower players have rubber advantage in fort/sumo
Z-Man wrote:2. With default settings (distance based rubber), the higher your speed, the shallower your grind, given the same rubber usage.

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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by newbie »

heh, i wanted to say, that the current settings foster less skilled players
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Titanoboa
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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by Titanoboa »

Didn't catch that. My apologies ^^

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Phytotron
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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by Phytotron »

Jonathan wrote:_TIMEBASED was meant to live in the [0, 1] realm in the first place.
Yes.
Anything else is an invitation for serious whack.
I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit to this reference, but that's a seriously Buffy-esque phrasing, heh.

In all fairness, though, we probably think it's bass-ackwards and whack just due to the fact that the opposite is what we're used to in this game. Imagine if we were starting from scratch (both as players and developers), then arguably it might make more sense that a faster player should get a deeper grind, from the perspective of kinetic energy and all. After all, if you want to drive a nail, you don't make a slow tap, you rear back and swiftly pound it. On the other hand, there's the whole non-Newtonian liquid principle (e.g., quicksand, the cornstarch suspension) that could be transposed onto it too, so. And on yet a third hand, there's my view which would rather it not be linked to speed at all.
newbie wrote:heh, i wanted to say, that the current settings foster less skilled players
Silly statement.

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Jonathan
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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by Jonathan »

I see rubber as a sort of rubber band between a cycle and the wall, which can take a certain amount of energy before snapping. Once you get near enough it'll absorb any excess speed (faster than some speed gradient), which is a lot when you're rocketing into it. Makes some sense, as without rubber you can't get as close to the wall at a high speed either, without an increased risk of dying. I'm not sure if rubber replicates it all that well though.

Anyway, values outside [0, 1] cause extrapolation. That tends to cause things to go unbounded. Invariants like inevitable death upon hitting a wall break down. Pigs fly too.
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Re: The Fortress Guide

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Phytotron wrote:
newbie wrote:heh, i wanted to say, that the current settings foster less skilled players
Silly statement.
your low skills produce low quality observations and you even don't play fort/sumo for real, so i won't even try to explain this, change _timebased back to 0 on your server and maybe you will end up wiser, it strengthens defensive positions and the outgrind attack (ask madmax) is a very simple example of it, because the offensive player ends up being most of the time faster
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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by sinewav »

I fail to see how setting timebased to 1 creates players of lower quality. Can someone explain this to me in detail?

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Re: The Fortress Guide

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What's your question? The current setting is 0. This means, that faster players have rubber disadvantage. Being offensive/attacking -> going after someone. You have to be quicker to box someone. When the deciding moment is rubber 4 vs rubber 4, the attacking player loses. People who attack more are generally the better ones. Putting aside why less skilled players are forced to play more defensively, in an even game pro vs pro it's about position. And _timebased 0 strengthens defensive positions, because people forced to play defensively are usually slower than attackers hunting them.
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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by Hoax »

Didn't know that about the rubber in fort
In most non fort/sumo servers im pretty sure it's always better to grind at speed
You'd think this would have to be changed now so it's pro to grind when going really fast; what with holes being made small. (& I guess there is newbs reason)

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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by newbie »

I will leave it for another day whether it has to be changed. The conclusion is simple: you have to brake before attacking with rubber and the defender doesn't have to, because he's already slower.
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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by Mkay1 »

I noticed at high speeds (60+) while attacking, that it was hard to grind hard enough to get in, say when the defender ground 1 against his wall. For me to get in I would need to use at least 1.5 rubber, and that is not an option because it takes me quite a bit of rubber to get to that speed (about 3.5+).

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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by Z-Man »

There needs to be a risk/reward balance. If going faster makes you grind harder as well as, umm go faster, all the advantages are on the side of the fast player and battles are purely decided by the speed players enter them with, not the skill of surviving in spite of the difficulty of higher speed. Yes, sure, *getting* faster is a skill in itself, but it should not be the only one that matters.

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Phytotron
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Re: The Fortress Guide

Post by Phytotron »

Eh, newbie is just the sort who will grasp at any excuse to boast and belittle others, regardless of the merits.

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