How to keep formation. (Only applies to CTF.)

[Zero V2]

Most team games start out the players in a "V" formation. Unfortunately, most people don't understand the most basic rules of it, and therefore kill off half the team within the first 15 seconds of the game. That's gotta change.

So, I'm going to explain an ideal formation strategy, and how to pull it off.

First thing I want to mention: this doesn't work if everyone's a speed hungry jerk who just wants to get to the flag/point/zone earlier. And that's my first point: Don't be such a speed hungry jerk!

Now. First, I'll describe the center, or point man. He's in the middle. If you're a center player, and you have more than one person to your sides, then you haven't any right to turn or switch direction until all of them are off or until you can't move any further without getting killed. From then on, it's the wingman players' fault for not breaking early enough to give you some room.

Next there are the middle wing players. They're right next to the center. They have the right to gain speed by grinding the center's wall. Many middle wings will double-bind along the center's wall. This is okay if there aren't any outer wing players, but it's still more fair to grind along with the middle man so that you and him get some speed before the break.

Then, there are the final players; the outer wing players (note, in more than five-player teams there will be more outer wing players). These are the outer-most players, and start out farthest back. If the center player doesn't turn, and the middle players aren't double-binding, then outer wing players have all the right to grind alongside the middle wing players. But, if the middle wing players are double binding, then they can't grind in the formation at all; and if the center turns, then the outer wing players can't get into the formation at all. The outer wing players must move earlier than the rest (if there are more than one set of them, then the following set must move even earlier, and so on) in order to give room for the middle wing players to move, so that the center player can move out of the way of any obsticals. The outer wing players are also inclined to helping out with team objectives and priorities--so if you're playing capture the flag and some people die, then you should break off and respawn them, or if you're going to defend, then you should break off and go to the flag; in fortress, you should break off early to attack the enemy's flank, or to defend the capture point.

If everyone keeps their roles and positions, and turns out at the right time to keep everyone else alive and out of danger, then you'll have a very smooth start. But it requires everyone to be fair and keep their roles. If the center player turns, then everyone loses speed and he probably kills everyone; if the middle wing players double bind, then the outer wing players have trouble gaining speed, and if the middle wing players turn out to early, it screws over the outer wing players because they may not have enough speed to get to their objectives early enough; and if the outer wing players grind the center player while the middle wing players are behind you or still double-binding, then you risk killing them, giving the center player a rough time, and reducing your team's speed altogether.

So, please. It doesn't matter how eager you are. When you're in a position, you have to respect others' rights in their positions and they have to for you. It's not fair that you kill everyone because you want to double-bind yourself, or because you want to get more speed.

If you follow these guidelines, then you'll have a much easier time and get to the objective with more players on-hand. So please do.

[DDMJ]

But, if the middle wing players are double binding, then they can't grind in the formation at all;

I totally disagree. Even if the 'middle wing players' are double binding, the other wing players still need to grind the center as well.

[Infamous]

stop playing CTF and play fortress.


[/thread]

[Zero V2]

But, if the middle wing players are double binding, then they can't grind in the formation at all;

I totally disagree. Even if the 'middle wing players' are double binding, the other wing players still need to grind the center as well.

No, because they risk killing those who are double-binding.

If the outer wing players get ahead of the middle wing players, then they risk sealing off the path for them to get forward along the center player. Unless the middle wing players turn back and get out of formation backwards, then the outer wing players risk sealing them in if they want to go forward.

[Lackadaisical]

Double binding should not be confused with double grinding

Anyway, double grinding is of very little use at all in fortress if the person on your outside doesn't grind, because the speedgain of your own little tunnel (in contrary to the longer tunnel when the outside is grinding) is hardly worth the trouble.

[owned]

But, if the middle wing players are double binding, then they can't grind in the formation at all;

I totally disagree. Even if the 'middle wing players' are double binding, the other wing players still need to grind the center as well.

No, because they risk killing those who are double-binding.

If the outer wing players get ahead of the middle wing players, then they risk sealing off the path for them to get forward along the center player. Unless the middle wing players turn back and get out of formation backwards, then the outer wing players risk sealing them in if they want to go forward.

if this technique is bad, why do nearly all fortress teams in clan wars and regular games do this?

Anyways, unless the outer wing is trying to purposely kill the middle winger by grinding excessively hard, the middle winger can usually easily get bye by doing a 3-4.9 grind.

I'm not saying it's good to do in ctf, but in fortress it is a perfectly fine and legitimate technique.

[DDMJ]

stop playing CTF and play fortress.


[/thread]

The problem here in this thread is that Zero V2 wrote this for players that play CTF and not fortress.

[Infamous]

stop playing CTF and play fortress.


[/thread]

The problem here in this thread is that Zero V2 wrote this for players that play CTF and not fortress.

that was my point.


Most people here will relate a team formation to fortress rather than CTF, so the thread seems odd because none of it is relevant to fortress servers. thus the replies in the thread saying he's wrong (when he's probably right in CTF).

[Zero V2]

Look, the difference with an organized team and a bunch of random guys who've just met eachother is very large.

Yes, I'm talking about mainly the CTF servers. That's why everyone's able to "double-grind" as someone said earlier.

But, the thing is that most people are just plain rude. Like when the center turns around right in the beginning and kills half the team. XP

That's why I made this.

[akira]

I think this topic has been covered in some other threads - look over to team strategies.

Besides, almost any "good" starting strategy can and will work. Early breaks, masterfully done doublegrinding, Torpedo, whatever you like.
The problem of "anyone killing off half the team" is rather a problem of:
- new to fortress settings
- jackasses
- bots

so it doesn't really qualify for a strategy discussion

PS: Anyone with some intact brain cells should be able to determine that the outer players should defend and the inner attack.

[sinewav]

This folly of this thread is that the people who regularly screw up the grind are also not likely to seek out the knowledge on how to do it properly. So, your post falls on deaf ears. You're preachin' to the choir baby!

For the record, yes, you should be a speed hungry jerk in CTF. Grind everything - twice, three times, whatever. Getting the jump on the opponent can decide the match, if you can keep up the pressure.

One thing you forgot to mention in your formation strategy is that the center doesn't have to turn in front of his teammates at all. The center can double-bind back through the grind after position 2 or 3 passes them.

[Goodygumdrops]

For the record, yes, you should be a speed hungry jerk in CTF. Grind everything - twice, three times, whatever. Getting the jump on the opponent can decide the match, if you can keep up the pressure.

Okay, maybe, but it's probably an elementary exercise to come up with a defensive start which nullifies your early speed and turns the round into a battle for who can break def first. This is the same way those of us who tend towards defense in fortress deal with double grinders.

[sinewav]

Yes, a very good point Goodygumdrops. As a CTF defender, I appreciate my team's ability to buy me enough time to set up, which usualy mean more defensive playing. As long as attackers don't come at me from both sides of the grind, I'm usually OK. It almost seems advantageous for the base-side grind to be faster than the flag-side. Does that make sense?