Armagetron, a 2-D or 3-D game?

SuPeRTaRD · Post by **SuPeRTaRD** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 am

if you make the bike just a shadow, & tear down the outer rim, you may have a point.

if you dont have a point, you must be Obleo

to the pointless forrest with you!
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oh yeah,.. and then theres still the matter of the trail..

damned Z's

Post by **Lucifer** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:08 am

2b|!2b? wrote:A few of us were playing last week and someone mentioned that armagetron was a 3-D game. I contend it is a 2-D game: we play on a flat grid. The camera can float on the z-plane, true enough, but the fight happen on the x & y-planes. I have never seen a bike jump over a wall (and that could be an interesting version to have!)
An analog analogy is chess: is chess a 3-D game just because you can move a piece by lifting it and because you can view the game from above? Surely not.
Anyways, I'm open to read opinions from the 3-D claimants as to how they see this game as a 3-dimensional one.

I think you're being too general for the sake of starting an argument.

The presentation and interface are all three dimensional. If they weren't, I would need a special driver for my video card to make the game run fast.

Tactically, the game is two dimensional because it only takes place on two dimensions.

So, the "setting" is two dimensional, but the "interface" is three dimensional. Would the game be the same if you make the interface two dimensional? (no) Would the game be the same if you made the setting three dimensional? (yes)

It's a 3d game. If you add ramps and jumping and stuff (and other movement on the z axis), these are just "features" or "enhancements". To pull the interface back to a 2d interface you need a complete rewrite of the game.

edit: Reverse the question. Is Ultima 2 a three dimensional game or a two dimensional game?

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:44 pm

If you add ramps and jumping and stuff (and other movement on the z axis)

you mean y axis ! hehe

ishAdmin · Post by **ishAdmin** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:11 pm

the game world is two dimensional. i.e. the physics of the game

the interface is two dimensional (you can switch between moving in the x or y dimensions only)

the view is 3 dimensional

We have a special god like priviledge of being able to observe the game from an extra dimension, and use that information to guide our player in it's two dimensional decisions. it's really cheating frankly. if we were true to the movie, we would only be allowed to play with the incam viewer, and that happens to be the closest to a two dimensional view as we can achieve in the game as it is. Actually, to extrapolate infinite height in the z dimension would be something that is acceptable, as it could be a perceptional reality for a two dimensional creature. They wouldn't be able to see above or below the line in front of them right? A 2d creature would not need to squint to see the line in front of them.

We would all have less car accidents if we had a floating camera above our cars in the city. We would see problem areas ahead, and could avoid driving into them. Our road system is pretty much only 2 dimensional. It becomes 3d when we start using over and under passes, freeways etc. The rest of the time, it's two dimensions. We can speed up, slow down, turn left or right, go forward or reverse. Everything a 2d creature can do, and little else. The car and the world might be 3 dimensions, but driving and the road system is 2 dimensions. Just because I get a 3d view doesn't mean I get to make 3d decisions.

2b|!2b? · Post by **2b|!2b?** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:48 pm

Your_mom wrote:doesnt time count as a dimension? if it does its definatly a 3dimensional game because time plays a part thus its viewed in the 4rth dimension. After all we live in 7nth dimensional hyperspace. im not kidding i think string theory proves my point.

Time has as much implication in armagetron than in chess. If you play chess where time limits are imposed then time count as a dimension. Since every game and match have a time limit, then, from that perspective time counts in armagetron.
Hidden dimensions in armagetron? I'd say that lag is definitely a hidden dimension in this game. You can't see it but it sure can kill you.
Rubber? Ditto. Can't see it but for those who can feel it, they can outgrind me every fuyu time!
String theory? I like it. But it is not proven, Mom. And it is going to be quite difficult to create experiments which will explicitely operate in their realms.

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:51 pm

wow 2 pages of this crap .. er i mean stuff lol

RUDEBOY! · Post by **RUDEBOY!** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:46 pm

In the end, no matter how it is visualized, it is still a 2d game like every other computer game because a computer screen only has 2 dimensions.

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:34 pm

RUDEBOY! wrote:In the end, no matter how it is visualized, it is still a 2d game like every other computer game because a computer screen only has 2 dimensions.

you have given me a great idea, im gonna try some true 3d renders of this game brb

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:47 pm

not as exciting as i expected but try it if you like

click on the image below to view full size
then cross your eyes to bring the left and right images together in the center to view it in true 3d

RUDEBOY! · Post by **RUDEBOY!** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:53 pm

AHH IT BURNS!!!!

Its not really true 3d, its your brain compiling a 3d image from a 2d plane which is representing a 3d plane of a 2d game.....or soemthing.

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:00 am

well thats how our brain works in real life !

takes 2 x 2d images (left eye and right eye) and compiles it to a 3d image inside the old noodle

Your_mom · Post by **Your_mom** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:07 am

ok so its at least a 3d game(x,y,Time) with a 4d camera(x,y,z,time) viewed on a 2d screen(x,y) in a seventh dimensional world(x,y,z,time,hidden etc.) visualized by human biengs who are given the illusion of 3 dimmensional vision. That pretty much sums it up.

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:11 am

Post by **Tank Program** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:34 am

yup your mom... but where does sound fit in?

RUDEBOY! · Post by **RUDEBOY!** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:20 pm

Sound is the product of vibration of matter (thats why theyre is no sound in space) and therefore reliant on all 3 visual dimensions and time so it isn't a demension in itself.

HERE COMES THE QUANTUM PHYSICS!

Not directly related to tanks post but may explain one of the undefinable demensions. Is Energy a dimension? I would conclude that it is, although since no one has ever actually SEEN an electron all theory about energy is simply speculation however, energy is completely self reliant on itself and the movements of electrons as they flit back and forth into existence. Because it isn't dependant on any other dimension I would conclude that it is or exists within its own dimension . Also time is a construct of our perception. Does it really exist? If we were immortal beings, we would have no concept of time, so is it really a dimension?

Armagetron Forums

Armagetron, a 2-D or 3-D game?

Re: Armagetron, a 2-D or 3-D game?

time implication in Armagetron and strings stuff