Double Grinders - Like 'em, or hate 'em?

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wd-40
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Double Grinders - Like 'em, or hate 'em?

Post by wd-40 »

I was just on the bugfarm fortress server tonight. I had asked another player to DG to help me get a faster attack. Then another player jumped in saying that double grinders slow the rest of the team down. Well here's my theory on that statement.

HOW exactly does a DG'er slow the team down? They get to the center sooner because the DG'er turns back at the start almost immediately instead of having to move over and grind. And the only other thing I can say is that even if that DG'er is not there immediately for you to grind his wall, you still grind the center's wall, or the wall of the next person to the side of the DG'er....either way, you only grind 1 wall and 1 wall only...

So do you like these guys or hate them? And why?

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Z-Man
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Post by Z-Man »

Your Theory is just a question :)

This was amply discussed already here, just one single topic down: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3128

The reason a DGer slows down the rest of the team is that grinding starts later. The center gets overtaken by the second wingman on the DGers side later and gets the boost later, the other side gets the secondary boost later, everything happens later.

It's worth it if the DGer times things right and can do something useful with his speed. Especially, the DGer absolutely must not die. DGing in it itself is not a skill. DGing right is.

wd-40
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Post by wd-40 »

Ok I can agree with that. But should the double grinding player's teammates be complaining when that person is getting into the enemy zone at least 50% of the time, and even when he doesn't he is killing off roughly 2 of the defenders wingmen in the process of getting to the zone? There are only a handful of people that use DG to their advantage and can do it well. Last night was the first time I had heard anyone complain about it so that's why I started this topic.

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Z-Man
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Post by Z-Man »

Depends :) If the slowdown causes the others side of the team to crumble every round and defense gets stormed because of that, then 50% success rate is not enough. Killing two of the three enemy players on your side isn't enough, either, if the third one can go around you with a speed advantage and crush your followers. But yes, if your overall success rate is good, smart players should not complain even if they have to compensate for the initial speed loss.

~*PsYkO*~

Post by ~*PsYkO*~ »

Double grinders slow down the team yes, but it is greatly out weighed with what the double grinder receives.

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wrtlprnft
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Post by wrtlprnft »

PsYkO wrote:Double grinders slow down the team yes, but it is greatly out weighed with what the double grinder receives.
If he is skilled enough for it, which very very few players are, and the only one i know that does it well is Zop. And yes, I've seen you play.
Last edited by wrtlprnft on Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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philippeqc
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Post by philippeqc »

Out of curiosity,

If a team, lets call them blue, would systematically ask double grinders to avoid this strategy, or maybe ask them to change to the other team, lets call them yellow, what would be their long term performance in game?

-ph
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Phytotron
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Post by Phytotron »

My guess is a lot of bickering and arguing about "no, I'm not going to change what I'm doing, you noob," and "wtf I'm not going to the other team" and so forth, perhaps with a few vote kicks peppered in.

Um, lol :lol: j/k!

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Van-hayes
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Post by Van-hayes »

Double grinding is good I think, if the person knows what they are doing, but it is really easy to stop it too, all you have to do is turn back towards the def after the break and they will lose there speed by that time and will have killed no one. Works just about everytime for me. Although for some reason not many people want to do this...
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Post by meriton »

My preferred defense against double grinders is to break much earlier, forcing them to cover more ground in order to get past me. You know, distance = velocity * time ...

This delays a double grinder, but to really make him lose the speed advantage, two players on the threatened wing are required: One drives to the rim wall, the other doubles back to seal the center at about 3/4 to the rim wall (=standard interception pattern).

Oh, and sealing the center lane really should be standard goalie practise by now ...

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