Fortress Opening: On the proper use of double-grinding

Team Strategies go here, if you want to share that is...
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Lucifer
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Post by Lucifer »

Sorry, I'm addressing whoever it was that posted right after me. I started the reply, then went to take a dump, then came back and finished. :)
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Post by newbie »

Lucifer wrote: Everybody has to work work work just so your lame ass can go fast and die in the first 5 seconds of every round.
;-) it is not DG

it's problem with skills
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Lucifer
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Post by Lucifer »

I'm still not convinced it can be used in an effective way, but I'll cede that it's a problem with skills.

It's also a problem when players won't stop after being asked repeatedly to stop. These are many of the same players that will kick someone who doesn't grind after asking them repeatedly to grind. Since "asking repeatedly" with no response is a reason to kick, then double-grinders who keep doing it after being asked repeatedly by their team to stop should be kicked.

If it works, people won't ask you to stop doing it. Some of us will give you time to work on it and show us it works, but if it doesn't, we'll expect you to give us back the time we spent losing and watching you die. It's an exchange, you get to try it, and if it doesn't work, you agree to stop. If that's not fair for you, there's the kick vote. ;) (I'm very happy the idea of kicking double-grinders was so well-received)
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2020
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it's obvious

Post by 2020 »

there's one way to resolve this guys
and it is not in forum

on the grid
but not with randomly arranged players
rather
in teams that are experimenting with doublegrinding etc strategies

(
yes
i know
i am becoming a one-song birdy
)
hold the line

~*PsYkO*~

Post by ~*PsYkO*~ »

belenus wrote:
PsYkO wrote:And I've seen a couple people mentioning that they will TK a double binder at any chance. Seriously stop being such knuckle heads you don't deserve to play fortress if you TK over a petty strategy..
If your DB gets me killed (when I'm center) every single round because

1. I am too slow and the other team just picks me out
2. you break off too late and just center player crash into enemies walls

I tell you to stop DB... if you don't, I'll try to kill you or tell people to grind hard one me, ie. use rubber to get you killed.

I would even trying to vote you out if you don't change your tactic and it gets someone killed every round, because in my eyes thats intentional TK.

I consider killing a crappy DBer a strategy to ensure the teams survival and maybe even a chance to win the round, because most DBers just hurt the team more than they help.

Yes, it works, somtimes, but mostly it does't and most players just don't get it right, actually most people already have problems with the break off. Either turning way to early, got too late.

Problem with DB is, if you turn before center can turn, you HAVE TO leave space for center player to go, if any teammate dies because of your DB... your DB sucks.
Never knew someone could get so low on my tron respect list.

~*PsYkO*~

Post by ~*PsYkO*~ »

Oscilloscope wrote:
PsYkO wrote:And I've seen a couple people mentioning that they will TK a double binder at any chance. Seriously stop being such knuckle heads you don't deserve to play fortress if you TK over a petty strategy..
Interesting. This dude is a hypocrite both on and off the grid. He TK'ed me the other day because—I don't even remember why; it was so trivial. When I called him on it he laughed (or lol'd, as it were) and said, "yep" and some other crap. It wasn't an isolated incident, either; seems to be his M.O. At any rate, "psyko" is a perfect example of the ilk of snotty little kids I described in the other thread, and half the reason I don't play there.
I dun even know who you are..+ I've seen you saying on other threads that you don't know how to grind therefor eyou get pissed when people killyou because you don't grind...I probably killed you because you were noobing around and interfering with defense or something.

Did it ever occur to you that it might not have been intentional? You know its not uncommon that a player accidently kills a friendly unit.

OK back on topic...Everything you "haters" are saying is that double grinders always turn late, center gets killed, and then they kill themselves..You gotta realize that its me and meri here two of the few who can do the double grind right...Sometimes I turn later or early by mistake cuz my finger slips but after that I don't need to wait for center to tell me to turn earlier I readjust by myself the next round.

Truthfully you guys are being ignorant..unwilling to LISTEN to meriton

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belenus
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Post by belenus »

Well, can we find an agreement here?

Would it be OK for all of you DGers that, if anyone wants you to stop DG (no matter the reason), you stop doing it?

I am sure noone will say ANYTHING if it's working and noone is hurt from it.

When I am center and I notice someone DGing, I watch and see what happens, like 2 times. If I die from it, the DGer should stop and grind normal, if he doesn't well, there are options to solve that issue...
Last edited by belenus on Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by newbie »

on the left side no one should die, everything is almost the same

on the right side good DG indirectly will close the center in a small arena with one or two opponents, there is no other way

if the center couldn't survive, just don't do it on the right side, because DG + going straight till the outer rim and then going back isn't worth it
Last edited by newbie on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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meriton
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Post by meriton »

Would it be OK for all of you DBers that, if anyone wants you to stop DB (no matter the reason), you stop doing it?
According to that logic, if some newbie says "Don't drive so close to me at start, I die every time" I should stop grinding. You are assuming that everyone is correct in his assessment of any given strategy. Alone the fact that people disagree on strategy proves that wrong.
When I am center and I notice someone DBing, I watch and see what happens, like 2 times. If I die from it, the DBer should stop and grind normal, if he doesn't well, there are options to solve that issue...
Yeah, two rounds are enough to see if any strategy in armagetron works. There is no such thing as a setup time, during which the team adapts to the new strategy. In fact, adaption is totally unneccessary: if it doesn't work with the way belenus plays usually, it must be rubbish.

If something doesn't work, I stop doing it. But to find out if something doesn't work takes a little time, during which I expect the team to give me the benefit of doubt.

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Post by belenus »

meriton wrote:According to that logic, if some newbie says "Don't drive so close to me at start, I die every time" I should stop grinding. You are assuming that everyone is correct in his assessment of any given strategy. Alone the fact that people disagree on strategy proves that wrong.
You assume that a newbie knows what DGing is.
And if your DG kills a newbie every round, you shouldnt do it, because he is too new to even think about adapting, he should learn how to play first.
If something doesn't work, I stop doing it. But to find out if something doesn't work takes a little time, during which I expect the team to give me the benefit of doubt.
You do not have to try it every round and every match and see if it works.
If you read this thread you should have learned by now that DGing sucks and aside from you DGers noone likes it, so no need to try it again anytime soon.
Last edited by belenus on Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Van-hayes
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Post by Van-hayes »

Im just wondering if any of you "DB" haters have ever tried it, seems like your "knocking it before you try it."
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Post by Tank Program »

Isn't the thread about DG? How did it become about DB? Doesn't matter.

That aside, DB is there whether you like it or not. You choose to use it or not. There's no sense in critiquing someone else for using it when you don't, and vice versa.
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Post by belenus »

Well, yah, its about DG... if I said DB anywhere its a typo
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Post by meriton »

belenus wrote:You assume that a newbie knows what DGing is.
I do? Where?
And if your DG kills a newbie every round, you shouldnt do it, because he is too new to even think about adapting, he should learn how to play first.
I am getting sick and tired of this myth that double grinding causes everyone to die. Furthermore, learning to play includes learning to adapt to the playing style of your team mates.
You do not have to try it every round and every match and see if it works.
I never did.

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Post by Van-hayes »

ya sorry bout that meant DG
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