The Fortress

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Tank Program
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Post by Tank Program »

Yeah... I was on one time with Lucifer and Phillipe (rare event for me) and a kick vote was started against me. It was pretty funny actually ><.
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Phytotron
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Post by Phytotron »

So, as I mentioned, I play this server very rarely. But every time I've been in there lately it's been a fookin' poll-kick fiesta. These kids who think they now own (in both senses of the word) that server are sending up polls if someone so much as looks at them funny, so to speak. It's ongoing and widespread—not just limited to a couple of jackass vote-spammers. I'd also say the majority of the polls are totally unjustified and simply a case of the impatient and grossly mookish, aggressively-minded teenagers who seem to currently dominate (and ruin) much of this game.

Question: Is this good strategy?

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Lucifer
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Post by Lucifer »

There are waaaaay too many kick polls. I'm starting to lose patience with these guys that just kick for anything. Maybe I can get them to kick me. :)
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Z-Man
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Post by Z-Man »

I'll see what happens if I turn up the kick vote rejection spam value so that a failed vote gets the submitter kicked.
But really, I count about 80 votes a day, half of them fail. Sure, they concentrate on the busy hours, but it does not qualify as spam, IMHO.

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Lucifer
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Post by Lucifer »

Heh, what bothers me about it isn't the frequency, it's the fact that they're a symptom of impatience and intolerance for new players. Kicking is supposed to be for people who are being abusive. Abuse through negligence is valid, right? Such as if people make a real effort to talk to you and you don't talk back. (Yeah, I know, there are some players who don't speak english well enough to even say they don't understand, I don't have a solution for that other than to hope someone there speaks their language and tries it)

Anyway, I've always viewed kicking as being for abuse, and back when it didn't have any teeth, it could be a good joke. It's still a good joke, it's just a joke with teeth, so not one I'm willing to make as often as I used to. :)
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gnorty
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Post by gnorty »

IMO it seems the game is falling victim to it's own success.

I haven't been aroud all that long in comparison to most posters on these forums.

Yet I have been around longer than the majority of people playing the game at any point in time.

Lots of newbs can only be good in the long term.

Unfortunately, this has coincided with a very good game format being introduced, based on teamplay. Long term players like to strategise, and improve their performance, and to an extent, newbs on the servers provide an obstacle to this. Hence the slightest disquiet about a players ability to fit in with the team results in a vote. This has now evolved further to a stage where petty squabbles are solved by kicking matches, when in truth, such squabbles would be better solved by one party switching sides so that it can be fought out man to man.

I like the idea of people who submit votes that fail are kicked themselves. kind of like "either he goes, or I do". Maybe some proper adult solutions would be sought instead of the current shenanigans.

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wrtlprnft
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Post by wrtlprnft »

Does that mean no more making polls against yourself?

So bad :cry:
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Post by newbie »

ok, i'm 100% sure that holes are bad (2vs1)

if i play def, i want the other team to make a hole before they will choke me, i'm sure that i will win 1vs1 against 90% of players and have a hard game with the rest, but it will be still easier than vs2

if i am one of those two attackers, i want to take the zone piece by piece and tease a bit the def

when i will tease him, he will try to kill me and this is a big mistake, because he will make a small gap for the other player

the ohter player shouldn't go in, he should just take a bit more of the zone than before

and than again... again... till we will win

no holes ;-)
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dylan
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....

Post by dylan »

Yes,its pretty much impatince with new players that dont grind or do the right things.But who can blame them there new.And its hard t learn when everyones screaming at u "GRIND!!! FRIGGING GRIND! WAT R U DOING!!!"
And try to kick u.

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Post by Lucifer »

newbie: yep, when it's 2v1, no holes. When it's 3 v 2, no holes. The rule is, don't kill yourself if it's going to even the numbers or give the other team the higher numbers. :)

I've found an interesting attack recently that works well. It has the added advantage of scaling up to 4 attackers.

Pick one side of the fortress, think of the fortress as a square for this purpose. The other guy picks the opposite side. You basically pace, and whenever the goalie comes around, make some feints and try to draw him out of his path. You know, make him think he can kill you easily, lead him into overextending himself. If he kills you, it's not that big of a deal, actually. You're not trying to get in at all.

You're trying to get him to open his gap wide enough that your *other* player can get in. If you survive, or if you have 3-4 attackers working on it, then as soon as one of your other players gets in, he cuts off the goalie and opens up the zone for at least one more player.

Winner: Blue team!

:)
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Post by newbie »

yeah, IMO on the grid the best attack can be done by 2 players

3 players obstruct each other

4 players indirectly help the def to kill one of those 4, mostly there is no space for 4 players
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gnorty
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Post by gnorty »

nope, 3 players can take a zone very quickly.

doing the wiggly attack down 3 sides, the defender has to be perfect 75% of the time to hold them out. One mistake on an attacked side will mean he has to adjust and let another side encroach, and it all caves in like a pack of cards. All it takes is that none of the 3 attackers is the kind who will sumo teammates for their slice of the zone, or the type that just continues to circle, boxing in his fellow attackers

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Lucifer
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Post by Lucifer »

Heh. The thing is, from what I've seen anyway, more often than not, the people doing that zigzag run out of rubber and kill themselves. Also, as a goalie, it's not terribly difficult to defend against. It does require some thought, but if you don't see me attacking you when you're doing that, it's because I don't consider you a threat, and would just as soon wait for you to kill yourself, at which point I can circle your squiggly line and immediately reclaim that part of the grid. ;) Also, your death hole is not threatening to me because your teammates can't reach it anyway, you protected it. And finally, when it's one on one, I just reconfigure my wall to put me on your side of the zone without letting you in and then seal both sides of your squiggly part.

Personally, I find mazing in the same area as effective, more dangerous, and more fun. The only thing the squiggly lines gives you is the goalie has a hard time grinding on it if he leaves a gap. I don't leave a gap anymore for other reasons, so now it'll probably take you many minutes to get in, thus increasing the likelihood that you will die without significantly affecting my own chances of survival.

I don't bitch about it as a tactic because it's harmless to teammates, and if one of your teammates should happen to bust into the zone, then you will help to turn it over quickly, and that's a Good Thing. But me not bitching doesn't mean I don't think it's silly. ;)
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wrtlprnft
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Post by wrtlprnft »

Worst mistake for the goalie is to start doing that when he gets attacked with it, too. Then the attacker can go into the holes and gain room while the defender opens himself because his wall get's too short.

So it is effective against unexperienced defenders. You won't get a good one with it.
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Post by gnorty »

I totally agree, It does fail more times than it succeeds, but for me, personally, it succeeds more often than any other method.

a goalie can of course keep grinding inside his wall and progress is slow, but once in a while he leaves a gap, and the progress is more. if he adjusts halfway along, the zigzag steps get a big step in, and that is where it starts to get treacherous for the goalie.

The rubber shortage can be overcome relatively easily by touching the wall only evey 3/4 twists, and now most of the time when I die it is because the goalie has taken some kind of counter measure, either left a trap in the wall, or else attacked me directly.

I am finding that once I get a decent chunk of the zone, it is better for me to switch to a more mazing attack, which very quickly changes in turn to the old style squeezing technique, or an inversion of the zone, so I am inside trying to push the goalie out.

Out of interest, if you came up against a goalie who was defending as you suggest, by making a square box, and grinding the interior wall, how would you suggest the zone is breached?

I do agree though, it is not as effective as some other techniques in general, and not nearly as good to watch as someone's high speed precision gap attack, but personally, I will take my 30% chance using the zigzag over the 2% chance of a rush attack, and for me, the winzone is a non-option.

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