Dealing with a Center Attack

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Ritsuka
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Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by Ritsuka »

vov wrote:we should make this one public so no nubs at pickup fail it ;)

First off, this is a defense/sweeper tutorial.


We've all run into this before, and it's actually very easy to deal with, as long as everyone plays their part correctly. The enemy has centered your defense, but all is not lost!

To begin, position 6 (defense) needs to bottle at the start of the round. For those of you who don't know, bottling is when the defense seals off the ends of the tails of his teammates at the beginning of the round, or "split". An example of the trap laid behind by the defense after the split is shown in Figure A.

Fig. A.png

At this point you should know that you're being centered, and begin retreating into your defense. By following your tail tightly you will constrict the enemy center, giving him only one option: turn back and try to escape the defense.

Sweepers: Yay, I didn't forget about you guys! For this to go as smoothly as possible, it is key that both sweepers are precise and quick in returning to the base when it has been established the center has occurred.

The attachment Fig. B.png is no longer available

Sweeper #1 should have plenty of time to seal off both of the enemy's means of escape.

Sweeper #2 will box the defense, preventing any further damage.

The center attacker should die quite quickly, and with sweeper #2 already boxing the zone, repairing the defense should be cake.
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Fig. B.png
Last edited by Ritsuka on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Concord
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by Concord »

or the center can just seal it

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Kijutsu
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by Kijutsu »

didn't you quit tron


herpderp message limit

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Ritsuka
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by Ritsuka »


Word
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by Word »

ideally the sweepers dig harder so the center doesn't even get that far. and the def can make a more effective block out of my experience if he grinds up and then goes back, blocks center, and sets up - he'll obviously need a bit more time for that but that's just the time the sweepers need to go back and cover center once more (as soon as the def's block becomes obsolete). plus the wings have a little more speed that can be deciding for a successful attack.

also, sweepers often panic and just self-destruct once someone is in their zone, or worse, hole the def even more/teamkill someone else (other sweepers, def mostly); often because they think they have to chase someone. BOTH sweepers should ALWAYS try to make a substitute defense around it (until one of them was able to set up , one can hardly do it alone as long as the center's trail serves as a springboard for other attackers)or prevent other attackers from getting in otherwise, then 1v1 ganking isn't a problem as long as the defense has enough room and uses it. However, good sweepers should already try to find a place they can later use to gank if their own blocking doesn't help, and if it isn't there yet, the defender has to prepare to make room for them when the former center isn't there to occupy it.
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(the sweepers can do what they want as long as they keep the def hole-free - in this drawing they only cover the center, not left and right, which belongs to their job as well)
(the sweepers can do what they want as long as they keep the def hole-free - in this drawing they only cover the center, not left and right, which belongs to their job as well)

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lonewolf
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by lonewolf »

Good tutorial suka :D
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Lackadaisical
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by Lackadaisical »

Figure A looks like an ideal situation for the center player, no? Looks like he can take at least a quarter of the zone and maybe even cut the whole thing in half.
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maybe not good still, but better
maybe not good still, but better

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Ritsuka
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by Ritsuka »

To be honest, my drawings aren't super accurate as it seems I always have time to reach my tail before the center attacker takes the "half the zone" but your addition seems legit. I'm just not sure that seal wouldn't have retracted altogether by that time.

+1 tho lack

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sinewav
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by sinewav »

Well as long as we are going to go over Fort basics, I'll contribute some things that work really well for me, but aren't too common to see.

I do an alternative "bottle" that stops center attackers from eating too much zone and works good against late centers. If the sweepers help out, it's very effective. The drawback is, defense takes longer to set-up and the sweepers need to be a little more creative when they return to center.

The other thing I'll share is not a center block, but a helpful way to seal middle after the grind. On the way back home, the slower of the two sweepers zig-zags a bit before splitting to the side. This tells the other sweeper "hey, you seal it so we don't get confused and TK (happens, you know?). This shape will help you get the job done proper."
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bottle-variant.png
(7.01 KiB) Not downloaded yet
sweep-seal.png
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Last edited by sinewav on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ritsuka
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by Ritsuka »

Nice addition sine. Your bottling technique is perfect for this tutorial. /me uses from now on

Concord
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by Concord »

the quicker the defender sets up, the sooner the sweepers can stop worrying about blocking and they can then get in to better position to perform their other tasks. The better position the sweepers are in, the more effective they can be. It also frees them up to join up with the midfield, rather than coddling the defense. Setting the designated defense up as fast as possible improves a team's chance to win a round. The defender hurts his team by not setting up as fast as possible.

so the defender and sweepers have much better things to do than deal with center attacks. It is inefficient for them to take proactive measures against center attacks.

The center on the other hand has nothing better to do than to seal. He can seal well easily and consistently. Doing so greatly improves his team's chance of winning the round, and sealing is by far the most efficient action he can take following the split.

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DaGarBBaGeMAN
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by DaGarBBaGeMAN »

Yes, but some teams choose to make more effective use of their center by having him play aggressively. Those teams use these kinds of bottles to secure their center. Ct has been doing this for a while, and it's worked out real well for them.

As for your first bottle style sine, I simply love it. It takes care of a lot of issues a normal bottle has. I implemented it in 3t the day I saw it, and it served us real well.
Image -made by az95

Image

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teen
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by teen »

Position 1 kills everyone on the team before they hit center. Technically speaking they cant center after that.
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Goodygumdrops
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by Goodygumdrops »

Concord wrote:the quicker the defender sets up, the sooner the sweepers can stop worrying about blocking and they can then get in to better position to perform their other tasks. The better position the sweepers are in, the more effective they can be. It also frees them up to join up with the midfield, rather than coddling the defense. Setting the designated defense up as fast as possible improves a team's chance to win a round. The defender hurts his team by not setting up as fast as possible.

so the defender and sweepers have much better things to do than deal with center attacks. It is inefficient for them to take proactive measures against center attacks.

The center on the other hand has nothing better to do than to seal. He can seal well easily and consistently. Doing so greatly improves his team's chance of winning the round, and sealing is by far the most efficient action he can take following the split.
You're kidding, right? Since when is blocking center attacks by position 1 a perfect science? Maybe things have changed in my relative inactivity, but as far as I know, the whole team has to worry about center attacks.
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Word
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Re: Dealing with a Center Attack

Post by Word »

Well, it's true that sealing is the best a center can do, but sometimes it's worth to take the risk because A) your defense and sweepers are crap anyway and/or B) the other center is crap and you can win easily, provided that your team doesn't die ganking.
Once both centers have really sealed it, the whole round becomes more like a "mano a mano"-game and lasts usually longer, whereas a successful centering attempt means that it can be over really fast - for both parties, especially if the team of this center has less good, impatient sumoers than the others.

The team has to worry about center attacks if someone dies during the grind, which seems to happen every second or third round in any team, or if the wings don't block and try to center instead/are passed by their opponents.

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