The Most Amazing Center Ever

Team Strategies go here, if you want to share that is...
User avatar
ppotter
Match Winner
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:45 am

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by ppotter »

theroze wrote:I experienced it that way: Right side split first, the left one later. I did a reverse triplebind to block the left side first (RLLL). I ended up centering myself. (KK paint drawing) So basically, the 'random' grind was probably something about 4.
lolcenter.png
Grinds that are usually sealed so tight you physically can't beat it.

User avatar
INW
Reverse Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 1950
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:10 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by INW »

ppotter wrote:
theroze wrote:I experienced it that way: Right side split first, the left one later. I did a reverse triplebind to block the left side first (RLLL). I ended up centering myself. (KK paint drawing) So basically, the 'random' grind was probably something about 4.
lolcenter.png
Grinds that are usually sealed so tight you virtually can't beat it.
Fixed :D

User avatar
ppotter
Match Winner
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:45 am

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by ppotter »

I thought about that but 'virtually' implies that it's not definite.

User avatar
Titanoboa
Reverse Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:07 pm

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by Titanoboa »

Well it isn't definite, you can still beat it with an even closer outside corner grind :D

User avatar
Tank Program
Forum & Project Admin, PhD
Posts: 6709
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:03 pm

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by Tank Program »

Don't forget that it's a virtual environment too...
Image

User avatar
þsy
Match Winner
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:52 pm

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by þsy »

This is all very nice - I watched the recordings of olive's outside corner grind, and it sounds like roze had a similar experience, BUT...

I didn't do this, I literally centered the enemy by driving straight at the unblocked center and going through it. Both wingers had done the normal double grind, so the chances of this happening were crazily slim. But, in theory, possible (unless tank tells me otherwise).

Maybe in a decade center players will be so good they can just center people this way all the time

User avatar
theroze
Match Winner
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:30 am
Location: 47 72 69 64

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by theroze »

Well, isn't it like the following: The harder you dig, the less space there is between your tail and the tail you grinded. As there is no infinite rubber, or you can't use infinite, there's always a chance (really really slight, but still) you can perfectly go between the two walls
apparition wrote:You being able to kill so many players that quickly and efficiently is evidence that the community skill level must be dropping... Sad :/
Reigning champion of: Sir-spam-a-lot 2011

syllabear
Shutout Match Winner
Posts: 1024
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: UK/HK

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by syllabear »

Walls have no width technically. Cycles also have no width (unless set otherwise). However, there is a finite gap between any two walls, and so taking all of these into account, yes its just as possible to pass between two walls that are close together as it is to pass between two that are very far apart... it's just more difficult for us humans ;)
The Halley's comet of Armagetron.
ps I'm not tokoyami

User avatar
þsy
Match Winner
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:52 pm

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by þsy »

syllabear wrote: it's just more difficult for us humans ;)
You will all catch up with me one day

User avatar
vov
Match Winner
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:40 pm

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by vov »

syllabear wrote:However, there is a finite gap between any two walls
And don't forget the cycle_rubber_mindistance which always keeps that gap, even at infinite rubber.
It only applies for digs, not for outside corner grinds nor direct tunnels (as psy probably did). Plus, they use no rubber :)
I also experienced some of what theroze's drawing shows... same concept there.

dariv
Round Winner
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:24 pm

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by dariv »

So if the only way to beat a very hard grind is a lucky outside corner grind, surely if you make an edge at the end of the wall (removing the corner that is connected to the wall) then you can actually create a true seal.
Attachments
1.JPG
1.JPG (8.56 KiB) Viewed 2269 times
pLxDari - Challenge us!

User avatar
Titanoboa
Reverse Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:07 pm

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by Titanoboa »

Indeed dariv. But that isn't a true seal in reality, as the enemy center can both brake down to a lower speed than the single grinder (a 4.9 doublegrind isn't worth much) and can have a ping advantage (higher ping). Of course, I'm nitpicking here. However, the classic (and most overused of all) center block, where the red(pos 1) would double back at the green(pos 3)'s wall (let's say red uses 3 rubber) would stop the enemy from both outside grinding and outgrinding the wingman's grind. That'd make it a truer seal, but a lucky lag can still get that enemy center through.

User avatar
Phytotron
Formerly Oscilloscope
Posts: 5041
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:06 pm
Location: A site or situation, especially considered in regard to its surroundings.
Contact:

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by Phytotron »

Titanoboa wrote:(a 4.9 doublegrind isn't worth much)
Nor any other needlessly specific value you guys always put on rubber. ("Grind at 4.9023485793457 not 4.809283457 u stupid noob!") Why? Because that's not a universal, grid-wide measure of the closeness of the grind; it's a measure of the amount of rubber you used at your specific speed at the time you made that specific grind. Rubber consumption is determined by the distance that would have been traveled had you not hit that wall, which in turn is determined by your speed at that moment. (That is, of course, with _TIMEBASED set at the traditional 0, which it is in every single Fortress server.) So, a "4.9" grind at one speed can be beat by a "4.3" grind at another. (And, of course, every grind can theoretically be beat—and irrespective of "a lucky lag.")

But, you know, everyone go on obsessing over those fractional rubber values as though they're a universal measure of your "dig."

syllabear
Shutout Match Winner
Posts: 1024
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: UK/HK

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by syllabear »

We're discussing the start though, so people generally have a universal speed, except in the case of the double grind, because they grind... (and the doubleness of the grind has some influence as far as I know?).

So we're assuming speed is going to be near to or fairly consistant
The Halley's comet of Armagetron.
ps I'm not tokoyami

User avatar
Jip
Round Winner
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:32 pm

Re: The Most Amazing Center Ever

Post by Jip »

Phytotron wrote:
Titanoboa wrote:(a 4.9 doublegrind isn't worth much)
Nor any other needlessly specific value you guys always put on rubber. ("Grind at 4.9023485793457 not 4.809283457 u stupid noob!") Why? Because that's not a universal, grid-wide measure of the closeness of the grind; it's a measure of the amount of rubber you used at your specific speed at the time you made that specific grind. Rubber consumption is determined by the distance that would have been traveled had you not hit that wall, which in turn is determined by your speed at that moment. (That is, of course, with _TIMEBASED set at the traditional 0, which it is in every single Fortress server.) So, a "4.9" grind at one speed can be beat by a "4.3" grind at another. (And, of course, every grind can theoretically be beat—and irrespective of "a lucky lag.")

But, you know, everyone go on obsessing over those fractional rubber values as though they're a universal measure of your "dig."
Also look at z-mans explanation there.

Post Reply