Meta & nitpicking (SPLIT)

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aP|Nelg
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Meta & nitpicking (SPLIT)

Post by aP|Nelg »

Z-Man wrote:That's completely normal for some router models. It's like calling your own phone number, that does not work either most of the time.
Actually I have a D-Link router that allowed you to connect with your internet IP address... I don't use it though.
Last edited by aP|Nelg on Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Z-Man
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Re: Lan Network switch to internet multiplayer

Post by Z-Man »

Yeah, my current one allows it, too, but the last two didn't and I had to add extra DNS entries for my home hosted master.

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Re: Lan Network switch to internet multiplayer

Post by Durf »

Z-Man wrote:...
gabriele wrote:but still some problems exist like: I can connect to my server on LAN but i can't when i write server Id from Custom Connect. :/
That's completely normal for some router models. It's like calling your own phone number, that does not work either most of the time. For completely different reasons.
Kind of off topic, but I'm just mentioning:
In cases like those, you can use "localhost" in place of your IP (where the program will try to connect to the server running from your computer) or "127.0.0.1" which is what your IP address is to your own computer (basically the same as "localhost"). (calling your own number is a bit different, it's more like calling a number without knowing the extension you're trying to reach; so you can't call the person you are trying to = can't connect to server hosted under your external IP)
This only applies if you want to connect to your hosted server from a local source.

For the server being listed online; needs port forwarding as was mentioned (which requires knowing a few different IP addresses).

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Z-Man
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Re: Lan Network switch to internet multiplayer

Post by Z-Man »

Durf wrote:In cases like those, you can use "localhost" in place of your IP
But then you're not testing anything. She has no problem connecting to the server herself over the LAN menu.

Guys, these support topics are difficult enough without nitpickers. Could you stick to saying stuff that actually helps? When needed? Concentrate on the actual problem?

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Re: Meta & nitpicking

Post by Z-Man »

Split, hoping to leave the original thread in the best possible state.

(Quoting in full because the original was cropped)
Durf wrote:
Z-Man wrote:
Durf wrote:In cases like those, you can use "localhost" in place of your IP
But then you're not testing anything. She has no problem connecting to the server herself over the LAN menu.

Guys, these support topics are difficult enough without nitpickers. Could you stick to saying stuff that actually helps? When needed? Concentrate on the actual problem?
Durf wrote:Kind of off topic ...
Durf wrote:For the server being listed online ...

I'm well aware and even made the appropriate notes for people to separate the information accordingly.
What I was saying was mostly for educational purposes. IMO it is knowledge that will help either way and was slightly related to the topic (just because of the custom connect to a server you're hosting from home).
Rule 1 of tech support: Don't give unnecessary information. More often than not, it is confusing. Here, it may even be wrong; maybe the server is not even running on her local machine. And she already knows how to check it is actually up and running:
gabrielle wrote:I can connect to my server on LAN
Durf wrote:I was sure to put focus back to the topic at hand; in fact, I'll do one better:
Feel free to PM me for help with port forwarding. I can get you from not knowing a thing about it to knowing exactly what you're doing.
Most of the concern seems to have already been answered anyway, so I didn't see the extra info as deterring or detrimental in any way (only extra, like a bonus - not everyone dislikes learning new things; some thrive on learning everything they can).
Apologies; if you were deterred from your purpose by my post. I can make up for it by personally taking on the issue.
Yep, better.

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Lucifer
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Re: Meta & nitpicking

Post by Lucifer »

Z-man wrote:
Durf wrote: Feel free to PM me for help with port forwarding. I can get you from not knowing a thing about it to knowing exactly what you're doing.
Most of the concern seems to have already been answered anyway, so I didn't see the extra info as deterring or detrimental in any way (only extra, like a bonus - not everyone dislikes learning new things; some thrive on learning everything they can).
Apologies; if you were deterred from your purpose by my post. I can make up for it by personally taking on the issue.
Yep, better.
NO! Not better!

We work in the open. We don't DO things in PM.

Everyone who has a problem may have someone in the future who has the same problem.

We provide them with the answers.


You know, the first time someone has that problem.

NO PM'S. Talk in the open, or don't talk at all.

I capitalized the wrong bit.
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Re: Meta & nitpicking (SPLIT)

Post by Z-Man »

True, too. Also, we're the ones who can easily see her IP and have access to the master logs, so we're in a better position to diagnose problems.

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Re: Meta & nitpicking (SPLIT)

Post by Durf »

Z-Man, please. Do you know what "off topic" means?
If you can't differentiate between what you need to know and what you don't need from my posts, then you're probably worse off than the person asking for help.
The fact remains that they were trying to "custom connect" by using their external IP address; what I added was useful information for whoever needed it (and yes, people will now know to use that when they need it).

Lucifer, does that mean you won't lock any thread trying to dispute my ban?
You say that we deal with things in the open, yet how much have you been hiding from the truth now?
Get over yourself; and get off your high horse.
I offered the person genuine help and dedication until their problem would be guaranteed "solved", and somehow that's not good enough for you because of your obsessive behavior against PMs.
Seriously, why are you even on these forums? If what I offer isn't good enough, then show everyone how what you can offer is better; solve their problem.

As for diagnosing their problems...can either of you tell them instructions oh how to find their internal IP address?
More importantly, the only thing limiting my ability to help them is the same thing limiting yours: knowing their router model.
So I don't know where you get this idea that you have more capability to help when you don't even know just how easy it is to port forward apparently (you don't need to look at any master server logs).

Have fun solving the issue "moderators".

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Re: Meta & nitpicking (SPLIT)

Post by Z-Man »

Durf wrote:Z-Man, please. Do you know what "off topic" means?
If you can't differentiate between what you need to know and what you don't need from my posts, then you're probably worse off than the person asking for help.
I can. The ones looking for help usually can't. Trust me on this. Really hard to explain without insulting anyone, but: Most of those who came before who could not follow the instructions on the wiki had serious trouble with things like that. Now, probably not gabriele. She knows how get her public IP, and she did manage to set TALK_TO_MASTER.

The difference between being able to look at the master logs and not is that no matter at what time she tests the server, I'll always be able to see whether it worked correctly. You'll have to fight online activity issues. Were you unable to connect because the server was offline at the time, or because the setup was not correct? What time zones are you two in? Those are extra difficulties. Not impossible to overcome, but they're tiresome and make the server owner in spe give up more easily.

Please, don't be insulting. Of course we can explain how to get the local LAN IP. It's just usually not required because the nice portforward.com docs have that covered pretty well, too. Because finding the IP is not enough, you have to assign a static IP if you want to do it properly, and that again depends on the router.

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Re: Meta & nitpicking (SPLIT)

Post by Durf »

Wasn't trying to be insulting; but both of your lack of appreciation for someone who was actually willing to take on the issue and guarantee it can be "solved" was discouraging to say the least. The truth can hurt; just because I say the truth, doesn't mean that I should be considered to be insulting you. If you knew how to take criticism, you'd just learn to deal with it and move past your feelings into more credible territory (just be the moderator people want you to be, and no one will have to be insulted).
That's why I say, "have fun solving it"; you both obviously have the time and dedication to apparently do a better job, so go do it then instead of trying to "nitpick" at what I say. (that's also why I called you "moderators" [in quotes], because this shows how you care more for nitpicking at me than actually helping a user get their issue "solved")

(sidenote: I've done this plenty of times in game with people. I've gotten their servers online; what I was offering wasn't a joke or to be taken lightly)
(other sidenote: again, there's a reason why I mention if something is "off-topic" before even saying it; regardless, if a person gets confused, I have the patience to clear up misunderstandings. You, on the other hand, have proven how you don't and would sooner give up on the person before actually solving the issue. You're currently trying to nitpick at me adding in information that is generally useful to know, especially when starting with servers and hosting. But why? In a thread meant to serve another user, you changed your focus to me and that extra info I posted. How in the hell does that take priority?)

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Re: Meta & nitpicking (SPLIT)

Post by Lucifer »

http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 49&t=18133

Z-man has adequately explained the importance of not subjecting people who ask for help to information overload.
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Re: Meta & nitpicking (SPLIT)

Post by Z-Man »

Durf wrote: what I was offering wasn't a joke or to be taken lightly)
Yes, that's why I approved of it and it is still in the original thread.

I do not nitpick you; I only answered your questions.
Durf wrote:You, on the other hand, have proven how you don't and would sooner give up on the person before actually solving the issue.
Oh? Where would I have done that?

You seem to want to turn this into a "who is the better support person" pissing contest now, having apparently run out of real arguments. I'm not playing that game because there is no price and no matter who wins, the poor readers lose.

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Re: Meta & nitpicking (SPLIT)

Post by Durf »

Z-Man, the last thing these forums need is for you to be just as delusional as Lucifer.
This isn't a contest, and I'm surprised you even think so (I don't care nearly enough about your position as a support person on these forums to try and take it from you).

You don't nitpick? Both you and Lucifer have (about it being in PM vs public). Did you forget already? Sure all you've said was "true" in agreeance with Lucifer's post, but the fact remains that you both were unappreciative that a user was actually willing to help and contribute in the form of that help.
The both of you nitpicked about it being PMs, showing you're way more concerned with a pissing contest that actually getting that user the help they asked for.
I was only ever offering help; like I said, if you think you can do a much better job (clearly you got offended) then just do the job, I will let you.
Z-Man wrote:....
Durf wrote:You, on the other hand, have proven how you don't and would sooner give up on the person before actually solving the issue.
Oh? Where would I have done that?
^ Really? Did you forget that you could not deal with a simple ban dispute? You are too impatient and self-centered to go through an ordinary process like a dispute until its resolution. So yes, you have proven yourself already incapable (should this support issue become too difficult for you, you would just abandon the user without the help they asked for).


Nice try making it seem like I was even trying to have a pissing contest with you, but I already withdrew my offer to help because you guys were taking on the issue personally.
Next time you try to deface someone, at least try using facts to do it; you're just a pathetic moderator trying to better your own image by discrediting me when you get the chance (and even then you fail miserably - just don't try stupid shit and be a good moderator instead; the poor readers lose when you lack the ability to get things done).
If you're worried about someone like me becoming a better support person in appearance, then just be a good support person; spreading rumors about your imaginary competitor will only make you look worse (there's a difference between a claim that can be proven, and one that is unfounded - leave the unfounded claims behind and just do your job if you're that concerned).

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Re: Meta & nitpicking (SPLIT)

Post by Z-Man »

Durf wrote:I already withdrew my offer to help
Oh, you did? How very patient of you.

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Re: Meta & nitpicking (SPLIT)

Post by Durf »

Please stop being an ass.
Impatience wasn't the cause of my withdrawal; it was your lack of approval.
I offered help but for whatever reason it wasn't good enough; I'm not going to go out of my way to waste my time adhering to your specifications just so that I can do YOUR job.
Plus, there was nothing wrong with my methods to help them; that being said, I withdrew because you and Lucifer felt that you could do better. So do better.
Don't get upset at your own assholery; and take responsibility for what you do.
Don't try to slap on a label like "impatience" when that simply isn't the cause; I've explained multiple times by now why I'm withdrawing my offer to help and for you to STILL make assumptions is just plain stupid. Learn when not to make an ass of yourself.

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