Hail the noobs....

General Stuff about Armagetron, That doesn't belong anywhere else...
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Phytotron
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Post by Phytotron »

I agree strongly with phil. That crap is getting annoying. I don't even play fortress, pretty much stay in Shrunkland all the time, but on a fairly regular basis some snot-nosed little pissant comes in bragging about how hot shit he is because he plays in that server. "I bet I can kick your ass in fortress!"

For instance, yesterday I was playing, cored a player in a rather mundane manner, and this fortress player who had just entered says, "nice!" I responded with one of my standard cheeky lines others have probably seen: "easily impressed." (Truly, I'm not being arrogant—it was a basic cut-off against a less than mediocre player.) He responds, "no I'm not, I'm really good at fortress." And then he went on to talk trash and boast and so forth.

These kids need to get over the idea that fortress, which has only even been in existence a few months, is the be all and end all of tron, and that their general competence in that server defines them as "owning" this game. As Lucifer pointed out, they'll even talk shit to way better and more experienced players.

Similarly, trying to create a better game for novices needs to drop the notion that the only area in which this has relevance is to fortress mode.

I like Lucifer's intro screen idea. I think also that the included documentation needs to be greatly elaborated. The game needs a legitimate how-to manual like comes with other video games. There should never be an instance when a player comes into a server and says "how do I go faster?" Tie these together by having an automatic message pop up the first time a player tries to connect to an online game, strongly encouraging, even admonishing, them to read this manual before participating in an onine game (I think this has been mentioned before).

But I think more than all that, the thing that would go furthest in making the game better for novices would be to develop training and challenge modes in the single-player game. I've already proposed something here: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopi ... 3649#43649

Basically, for those who are familiar, think of Madden which has Practice, Football 101, and mini-camp games. Or think of Perfect Dark with its practice and challenge modes. I don't know how feasible it is at this time, but there it is.

And lastly (at least for now), a social thing all players can do is stop being such assholes to new players just for being new. I've been accused of being a big old meanie, but I've always made a point and a practice of never picking on novices just for the sake of being new. Personally, I'd like to see the word "noob" and its variants dropped from the common lexicon altogether. Its the classic thing of putting down someone else just to pump yourself up. That is its only purpose. "I'm the shit and you suck. F--- off." And so they do, or they become...trolls, snerts, nuissances, whatever you want to call them.

What chance do I give these things of happening? Not much.

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2020
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Post by 2020 »

startup page for noobs is a good idea

a user-sensitive redirect to the wiki
when entering cvs fortress is a good idea too

the wiki page for beginners is there
i thought

and hints quick key is also nice idea


the problem is social --
just imagine what it was like for the first teams
who wanted to play association football
when people would turn up to play and pick up the ball
etc

on the positive side
this is what gives the game its edge
it aint just plug in and start shooting
there is skill involved
and teamwork too
fantastic! :D
hold the line

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ed
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Post by ed »

Some great idea's there. Would improve things a lot.
I agree with zman that a "noob friendly" server would be empty, so is pointless. You can't learn with noone to play against.

Here's an interesting challenge. How about a server filled with players. Not real players, they're on Bugfarm fortress. Not bots, they currently can't play fortress. But with a kind of recording of 10 rounds played by experienced fortress players. WIth hints and tips explaining what players are up to and why they're doing it. A set camera sequence focusing on key moves and events. A teamkill or 2 thrown in to show how they can easily be avoided.

Or maybe the noob could jump into the middle of the pack and try and survive. If these fake players continued to chat, the new player might not even be able to tell the difference.

If this were possible it would certainly be able to teach them the basics.

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Lacrymosa
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Post by Lacrymosa »

A kind of Tutorial Video!
Good idea ed. And I think the server start page is useful as well.
I remember, when I played my first fortress game, I was just confuzed and didn't know what to do. And there were all these messages like "Grind!" or "Split!!". So a noob website wich explains all these things would be very helpful. Just put the link in the server description part.
For example:
Fortress server
New players are welcome, but if you are new then please visit this site:
(here's the link)

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joda.bot
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Post by joda.bot »

hi

If you really want to improve the noob's life:

1) You might add a FAQ or Tutorial to the wiki, we're curently investigating / planing to use the wiki to store the help documation included in the final releases. (A how to about the gauges, the basic game elements and general player behaviour might help.)
2) Perhaps we (devs) can add timed (text) messages to the maps and just use a winzone as goal. Can you use that to make tutorial maps? Perhaps they can be included with the next major release of Armagetron.

(I guess more than timed messages might be difficult to realize. Perhaps even maps with predefined player pathes can be implemented (timed walls).)

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wrtlprnft
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Post by wrtlprnft »

Don't add a faq to the wiki, improve the current one ;)

Yes to tutorial maps, but I think those would be easier to maintain with scripting.
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Z-Man
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Post by Z-Man »

We could add what's needed for tutorial maps in 0.3 and just set up tutorial servers that we bounce new players to. Timed text messages, AI players following fixed paths (way better than just walls popping up), that stuff. I'd rate the impact of better documentation lower than the impact of better in game help; nobody reads documentation unless there is a problem.

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sk0815
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Post by sk0815 »

Hi all,
what do you think about offering a TeamSpeak Server? TS could be configured for different purposes, eg Lessons where only the teacher explains the tips'n tricks and the others can listen to him.

sk0815

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Tank Program
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Post by Tank Program »

A couple of people do run TeamSpeak servers... Not sure about lessons...
Image

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Z-Man
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Post by Z-Man »

I think we should create a Fair Play Task Force. Task Force members could work undercover or in the open (maybe wearing a [FP] pseudo-clan tag that can also be misinterpreted as "Fun Police"). They'd simply be on servers and play normally. What makes them different from normal players? When there is a conflict on the server they play on, the Task Force members try to resolve it. The Task Force would coach new players through ingame chat or voicechat where available. If supported on the server, they switch to the chatting spectator mode for that so they don't have do mind both playing and coaching/resolving.

I'd imagine the Task Force's power for conflict resolutions to be based more on simple social mechanics than actual admin powers on the servers. Abuse reports from Task Force members would be taken more seriously by server admins than reports from random players. Impostering Task Force members or just wearing the tag falsely should be a bigger "crime" than regular impostering already is and lead to instant bans. By the stronger bound between server admins and Task Force members, think of the Task Force as proxies, players will be inclined to follow their commands. Everyone benefits, the server admins don't have to watch over their server all of the time, and the players get a better, healthier, friendlier environment to play in. FPTF members get authority :)

What could be the specific tasks? All of course depending on server policies,
- Coaching new players
- Mediating silly conflics and if mediation fails, tell them to STFU , if that fails, kick both parties
- Watch over foul language
- Watch for "campers" in the sense of people who make a round go way longer than it should in the hope of getting just one more point for surviving longer than the other guy

Where instant actions against Fair Play violators are impossible (like kicking or starting kickvotes that get accepted thanks to the FPTF's general authority), reporst should be sent to the server admin.

For that all to work, of course, FPTF's members need to be trustworthy and well respected by our player base. I'd say most developers and server admistrators automatically are qualified, and I've got a small list of regular players in mind that would qualify as well, and a list of those who certainly don't :)

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philippeqc
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Post by philippeqc »

I love the task force idea!

I'll proudly wear the [FP] tag with my name and continue (and try harder) to resolve different social problems as I see them.

Its a great idea.

-ph
Canis meus id comedit.

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Z-Man
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Post by Z-Man »

Ok, some hints from the real world. Here's what NOT to do when coaching a player named X:
- call yourself "X's coach"
- talk publicly
Apparently, you get made responsible for everything X does if you do that :)

So, what to do instead: have a keybind to a "/msg \" instant chat ready, modify that to contain the coached player's name and use it for coach-chat. Avoid name similarities between you and the coached player.

As to the "how" of coaching, I guess we have a lot to learn :) For example, it is very hard to tell whether the coached player is actually listening; some people haven't yet found the chat button, you don't even know which language they understand best.

And we're missing a feature. The camere should remember which player you were watching last round. While coaching, you need to keep watching your pupil, and having to switch the camera focus every round is annoying.

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Lacrymosa
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Post by Lacrymosa »

Maybe we should make a "I need a coach" page where noobs can ask for a coach or where good players can ask for coaching a noob.

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Z-Man
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Post by Z-Man »

Good idea, although it would require the trainees (better word than noob in this context?) to register here first before starting to play, or at least look around.

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ed
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Post by ed »

Maybe with the 0.3 release when the user presses on "Internet Game", there could be a stop screen that says something like:

Code: Select all

Please be aware there are many Team Servers Running Here.
If you choose to join one that will make you part of the team. 
Due to the nature of the game, it is very easy for the actions of a novice to influence their entire team. This may result in the novice being ejected from the server.

Fortunately, there are some good folk over at armagetronad.net who will be willing to train you in the basics. Please visit training.armagetronad.net for more info.

Press c to continue
Of course, this screen could easily be turned off.

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