Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growing

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/dev/null
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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by /dev/null »

Im not entirely positive its possible to make .4 play like even 2.7. Much less, the old servers we all remember.

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Phytotron
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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by Phytotron »

/dev/null wrote:Im not entirely positive its possible to make .4 play like even 2.7.
2.7.0's rubber was buggy (same for 0.2.6). 2.7.1's rubber was all messed up, allowing almost infinite adjusts and 180s.

The rubber simulation in 0.2.8.x is much better by comparison, especially when configured properly (e.g., keeping it low and using _RUBBER_DELAY & _BONUS to punish adjusts/180s). The problem is, thanks in large part to the crappy 0.2.7.1 era when super-high rubber and adjust/180 abuse became prevalent, most server admins use crappy rubber settings. The "open" movement exacerbated this.
Much less, the old servers we all remember.
Almost no one who is active anymore remembers anything preceding 0.2.8.x, for better or worse.

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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by Amaso »

We get new players everyday no one helps them out.
Cased Closed.

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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by Phytotron »

Amaso wrote:We get new players everyday, "veteran" gatekeeper players are hostile to them and actively chase them out because they don't conform to their unwritten gameplay rules.
Cased Closed.
Fixed.

Really, I don't think this game can ever regain population in its current state. High rubber and multibinding set the stage for long-term failure, but the introduction of "special zone-based game modes" was the thing that definitively and perhaps irreversibly spelled its eventual doom. There may have been an initial uptick in population over the novelty of it, and when it was new to and still being figured out by everyone, but as these game modes and attendant gameplay became more ingrained and "refined" (not to imply it's particularly sophisticated), and the community became more about gatekeeping (e.g., logins, unwritten rules, kicks, pickup) the entry point got higher and higher for newer players. Not to mention that little of the current game has anything to do with what most people would initially and intuitively associate with a lightcycle game. It was a recipe for long-term disaster.

And that's to say nothing of how horribly toxic the community has become, a problem with Gaming Culture in general.

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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by Word »

Crazy idea: Have the devs draft a virtual certificate/contract for server owners wherein they voluntarily guarantee a certain amount of community control (e.g. playing open is only mandatory in the server when the settings support that; server admins check arma forums or their server's site and try to create a good climate when they are in their server; have at least a certain amount of active moderators etc.) and somehow highlight that in the server list. Not in an elitist way but so that everyone can easily obtain one. Start with Yellow Submarine. Perhaps reward mods with a special GID. Crazier idea: Have clan/server-independent moderators who have certain powers in every server - optional or mandatory for people for agree to that contract.

It would be similar to the system we already have in place for ladle servers, but on a bigger scale.

A voluntary tron police.

Now take that and advertise Armagetron by showing a progressive way to change gaming culture.

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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by Durf »

I actually had a similar idea a while back. Not sure if I posted it.
But when I had this idea, it wasn't limited to server owners (anyone could help, server or not).

The idea came from a group of tronners (inactive now) called "Sirs" (like knights).

Isn't it possible to include a CFG file from an online resource? (I thought it was - with access levels...keep in mind idk what is setup already for ladle)
So a new global ID wouldn't be necessary since there could just be an online CFG file that server owners can choose to include.

Then you get the problem of which access level to give who.. Do you make these volunteers admins? mods? team leaders? (though this can be overwritten in the individual server settings)

Worse yet is when you want one to have an ability to do something, but not another. Then you have to juggle with all the access level settings and you MIGHT get the combination you want. (I have a way to structure access levels differently to solve that issue, but I'm not sure it will be implemented)

Plus, how would you determine who would get accepted into this 'police' department?
The way that Sirs group was done, you needed a certain number of nominations (from anyone).
I mean, don't you think trolls would volunteer? Would you make them tron police officers?

Also, how can you guarantee that the police will uphold the server's rules? What if they don't? Or what if they enforce their own rules? What if one of them becomes a problem? How would you suggest going about to remove them?
(Ideally, there would be help messages they would read - a server policy to abide by and enforce)
(A vote within the police department itself would be elitist IMO - so I suggest a vote from withing the police department to determine if there will be a public vote on a particular officer; whether or not they should stay.)




Overall, I think it is a great idea and very possible to accomplish.
I don't think this is too different from the idea you tried to describe (if it is, my bad - I'd like to know how yours is different).
I especially agree with:
... advertise Armagetron by showing a progressive way to change gaming culture
My only concerns are...well I mentioned them.


P.S - hehe I like to photo. That's been my 404 page for some time now.

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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by compguygene »

Well, in an attempt to get this topic back to the original topic, I would like to re-direct all discussion of the 2 above posts to the topic that has been started about them http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... =1&t=23964

This forum topic was started Nov 11, 2014. At that time, we were trying to have regular fortress and CTWF games. At this time, January 19, 2015, it seems that most evenings you can play a public fortress game, I do most evenings. CTWF is making a comeback and is getting regular players at varying times of the day. Perhaps one of the better things I have seen is a slight uptick of players playing some low rubber servers. My personal favorite has become Swampland (celebrating 10 years). Mud puddle continues to attract players pretty regularly. Other than those, the most commonly used servers are a High rubber server, Toble of Doom, a couple of DF servers, and Fasttrack. Sumo is still played during the day and early evening, but is no longer 24/7 like it once was.

So, that is where we are, where do we go from here.

Well, Lucifer has returned and seems to be taking steps to step up development and encourage others to do so as well. Currently he is setting up the buildbot needed to do daily builds. In this post he has listed a basic to do list of thinks to do to release a stable .4 release.

A stable .4 release with tutorials (which it currently has), and a lot more spit and polish that it currently lacks would most likely encourage more players that download the game to actually become regular players.

So, what else do we need to do?

BE NICE OR AT LEAST CIVIL TO EACH OTHER!

No magic to that. Let's just go back to posting stuff that is actually useful, intelligent, informative, or at least of general interest. Posts like that are still happening, they have just been kinda drowned out by a bunch of unneeded drama. We all know that. Most of us here are either adults or within just a few years of becoming legal adults. I have had intelligent conversations with many of you in TeamSpeak, In-Game, and on this forum. Let's just go back to that. It's been amazing to me to have seen some of you grow up from teenagers in High School to graduating college and getting that first career-oriented job. I have been playing since December of 2007, and many of you have been doing so longer than that. I am not calling for "the good old days". I am calling for a good new day.
Armagetron: It's a video game that people should just play and enjoy :)
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/dev/null
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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by /dev/null »

Ill help a noobie all day, and go out of my way to do so.

You ********** arent noobies, and I have no reason to be civil to you.

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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by Durf »

/dev/null wrote:Ill help a noobie all day, and go out of my way to do so.

You ********** arent noobies, and I have no reason to be civil to you.
In with the new, out with the old...right?

Being civil shouldn't require any extra effort (certainly not the amount of effort you use to be vulgar).
What compguygene is asking is for users like you (based on your recent posts) to suck it up for the good of the community.
You, /dev/null, don't have to go out of your way for anyone that you deem to be not a "noobie".
You also don't have to go out of your way to be repulsive (demeanor).

Technically speaking, you don't have to be civil. You are free to be how you want.
Though, you aren't allowed to be insulting (which you seem to be a lot of the time).
And this isn't about giving yourself an excuse not to be civil to anyone either - what compguygene asks is simple.

If we're talking about growing tron's population, it's not just about helping newcomers get started, it's also about making sure they want to stay.
I agree with compguygene, there's no magic to it.
People on the internet aren't there for you to vent your pent up negativity on; we're all here to enjoy the same hobby (game / project).
Maybe you could consider everyone (even the old tronners) to be "noobies"? Then you would help everyone! :)

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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by ConVicT »

Literally no players :(
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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by Word »

Well, I think part of the reason for this inactivity is the lack of advertising...my generation found the game in PC magazines and open source was still a new thing a few years ago. Now we all moved on, even the players who were significantly younger than me but started around the same time go to university now. I think if you want to grow the community, you need to advertise the game more aggressively again, perhaps after it has undergone a few changes to make it more appealing for players who were born after 2000 (or 2005?). I doubt that being nice and making some HUD adjustments changes will improve much if nobody notices the game in the first place (of course I think such things should be done as well, but they aren't high on my priority list - and I do agree that the main site needs to be fixed/updated, especially the server browser), or only those who download it, play it once and then forget it again. I bet many of the sites that once helped promoting Armagetron are gone offline now. So go out and evangelize...

Perhaps capitalize on the NSA scandal in some way? :P

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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by ConVicT »

One and only reason I found this game is Tron Legacy!
Make servers in other games that advertise this game, like, idk, Minecraft?
People will punch a post and get took to the Arma download page, (of your own making) if you download tron you get a rank in Minecraft?
I think it would work because when I was right into Minecraft I paid real money for one of those shity ranks, so what's downloading and maybe even enjoying another game for a free rank?

P.S. I actually came across a few newbies today, has someone done something?

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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by compguygene »

When that happens, go to one of the new Wild West servers that I have put up that were originally Adventures of Tron: Destroy the MCP, AI Challenge II, or Original Arcade. All these servers are actually interesting to play against the bots and allow others to come in and join you. Surprisingly, people do! The same can be said of Shrunkland, Beebop in Harlem, and Mud Puddle (which will really bring out the old players! I just played in Mud Puddle last night with Dr Joe Tron, for example.
I also have put up Wild West -=FortressAi Challenge=- and Wild West -=Team SumoBar=-. Both of these servers have bots that know about the zone. In the FortressAi Challenge server, you face off against 12 bots that attack you pretty much 1 or 2 at a time and will take the zone if they can. In Team SumoBar you sumo against some bots, at least one of which will stay in the zone and Sumo against you. Both of these servers are great places to camp, have some fun, and wait for people to come and get some Sumo or Fortress started.
TLDR: There are some servers listed above that are worth playing in alone vs bots that will attract people to come play.
Armagetron: It's a video game that people should just play and enjoy :)
https://bit.ly/2KBGYjvCheck out the simple site about TheServerPharm

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Phytotron
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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by Phytotron »

compguygene wrote:I just played in Mud Puddle last night with Dr Joe Tron, for example.
Sure about that? I've seen people snag that name a few times, same with Swampy. Hell, at some point Word was using my original name.

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Re: Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growi

Post by /dev/null »

The vast majority of noobs who meet me stay. You dont know **** all for shitfuck.

It offends me that someone who doesnt play acts like they know how shits works.

I hope you die in a house fire.

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