Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

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Moofie
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by Moofie »

Yes it is very easy :P, but it also takes time and money. Now don't get my wrong, I'd love to have people buy their own VPS and get one runnin', it'd give people some more knowledge to play around with. But not everyone can, and that's where we come in. Also, I haven't heard of any needed Ladle servers, but if one is needed next Ladle, ask me! I'll gladly put up one, or two, or whatever.

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Light
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by Light »

Moofie wrote:I'll gladly put up one, or two, or whatever.
They lost two stable servers now, so they could probably use some. I thought about hosting one too, but not 100% sure my net can handle it, and I don't wanna be a bother and have a server lag on them. I just never attempted hosting that many people. lol DF and CTF don't go near that.

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sinewav
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by sinewav »

Light wrote:If you would like a better tutorial, you could make one. If you try to figure out how to set it up, and you run into any problems .. feel free to ask and I'll be happy to help. Then you can write a tutorial that fits what you got in mind.
You don't seem to understand the problem. That Ubuntu tutorial is completely useless to the average player. Setting up a server and hosting is not easy. There is a huge gap between what you tech guys know and what I, an average Windows user, knows. I couldn't possibly make a tutorial out of something I don't understand. The idea I am proposing is to shrink the knowledge gap.

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Magi
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by Magi »

Moofie wrote:Yes it is very easy :P, but it also takes time and money. Now don't get my wrong, I'd love to have people buy their own VPS and get one runnin', it'd give people some more knowledge to play around with. But not everyone can, and that's where we come in. Also, I haven't heard of any needed Ladle servers, but if one is needed next Ladle, ask me! I'll gladly put up one, or two, or whatever.
We may be in need of another US ladle server next Ladle
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bye

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Light
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by Light »

sinewav wrote:You don't seem to understand the problem. That Ubuntu tutorial is completely useless to the average player. Setting up a server and hosting is not easy. There is a huge gap between what you tech guys know and what I, an average Windows user, knows. I couldn't possibly make a tutorial out of something I don't understand. The idea I am proposing is to shrink the knowledge gap.
There are server releases for Windows too. I guess you could set up with Batch scripts and use that? I'm not too knowledgeable of Windows after being away from it for so long, and I'm not familiar with the Arma releases for it. I know there are hosts that provide Windows VPS's too, though that seems like a waste ..

But that tutorial tells you what you need to type. The most it asks from you, from what I remember from scanning through it is that you know how to change directories.

I'm not tryin' to sound like a dick, but I don't really see what would be difficult there. I did think about making a script today though to install it for you. Maybe I'll get around to doing that sometime here. Then you would only need to use pre-built scripts to start/stop/create/delete/etc servers. It should be possible. I'll look at it tomorrow probably if I got time. Weekends are usually kind'a packed for me.

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Light
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by Light »

Ok sine .. Check this out.
http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... =4&t=23031

If someone wants to test it and let me know .. that'd be great. I don't feel like testing it myself at the moment. I tested the server download & installation, but not ZThread install.

Any questions? Feel free to PM me. Don't expect me to check back here.

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sinewav
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by sinewav »

Let me see if I can explain the problem a different way. There is no way for an average Armagetron player to create a decent public server. With what's on the wiki, I might, on my best day, be able to use the "host game" option and get it to show up on the master server -- provided I can find enough external information on port forwarding and my router. What is missing is instructions on how to, let's say, put Arma on a VPS and get it running (and even how to go about getting a VPS / what to look for). Without the simple, step by step instructions found in videos like these, I would never have been able to install forum software on my website. You could make some sort of script, but again, I would have no idea what to do with it.

I am making a bit of a fuss about this because I really do want to learn. I also am getting tired of asking people for tournament servers every month. If someone in the community with the knowledge would take the time to help the community be more self sufficient, that would be great. Of course, those who make money off n00bs like me probably won't like it...

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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by Light »

sinewav wrote:Let me see if I can explain the problem a different way. There is no way for an average Armagetron player to create a decent public server. With what's on the wiki, I might, on my best day, be able to use the "host game" option and get it to show up on the master server -- provided I can find enough external information on port forwarding and my router. What is missing is instructions on how to, let's say, put Arma on a VPS and get it running (and even how to go about getting a VPS / what to look for). Without the simple, step by step instructions found in videos like these, I would never have been able to install forum software on my website. You could make some sort of script, but again, I would have no idea what to do with it.

I am making a bit of a fuss about this because I really do want to learn. I also am getting tired of asking people for tournament servers every month. If someone in the community with the knowledge would take the time to help the community be more self sufficient, that would be great. Of course, those who make money off n00bs like me probably won't like it...
The script I made installs ZThread and the Armagetron server for you. If you want all of the basic configurations to get a server on the master server list, feel free to RINCLUDE my base settings.

Add to the top of settings_custom.cfg or type them in if you used the host button in the cilent:

Code: Select all

RINCLUDE basic.cfg(http://lightron.no-ip.org/armagetronad/basic.cfg)
USER_LEVEL [email protected] 15
RESOURCE_REPOSITORY_SERVER http://resource.armagetronad.net/resource/
// Edit
Leaving for a couple hours so if you have anything else, I'll get back to ya later.

Moofie
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by Moofie »

sinewav wrote:Of course, those who make money off n00bs like me probably won't like it...
I'd just like to make sure you know I'm not just trying to make money of people like you :P, and I'd love for more peeps to be able to host their own servers.

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sinewav
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by sinewav »

Light wrote:The script I made installs ZThread and the Armagetron server for you.
Again you completely miss the point. I have no idea what to do with that script. Should I print it out on paper and read it aloud like a magic spell? And, "run this script" doesn't teach a person anything. it's nice that you wrote it, don't get me wrong, but it's only useful to people who probably know how to set up a server already. Do you understand now?

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Phytotron
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by Phytotron »

Light wrote:And if you really want to go for cheapest, you can run it off of a home network given your connection ain't shit. I run a bit off my home network, and it doesn't lag much.
Up until the time I quit playing, back in mid-2006, all but one or two servers were hosted in people's homes. Almost all ran fine, with some experiencing the occasional hiccup (e.g., Lucifer's doubled as a mail server, so occasionally Breakfast in Hell would have a big lag bomb, to which we'd exclaim "Lucifer's got mail!" Har). Strange as it may sound to most of you, I think a lot of people considered that part of the charm, heh. For instance, when I was talking about bringing back Armagoshdarn, some of the older players would ask me, "will it have the same lag?" As in, it wouldn't be the same without it. But most ran more or less smoothly. Swampy hosted Swampland and Shrunkland simultaneously, and other than limiting player count (e.g., Shrunkland was 6 back then, now it's 8) to cut down on the load, they were perfectly fine.

Anyway, by the time I came back to the game in late '09, almost all servers had gone commercial. But considering that most people's home broadband bandwidth is much greater than it was even as recently as 2006, I'd think home hosting would be a very viable option for this game these days.
kyle wrote:it's soo easy to setup even a caveman could do it :)

linux based, get required packaqges (I have the list someplace)
make a new user account.
Create some directories
place config files in proper locations
get the code from launchpad and compile the server
find some scripts and configure them to how you made your directories
run the start script in a screen session (if the script does not create the screen for you)
You're nutsy. That's not even close to easy or simple. All that stuff requires acquiring a great deal of background knowledge before even getting to that point. That's the problem with geeks; they assume everyone speaks the same language they do. Bunch of Nick Burnses.

That said....
sinewav wrote:There is no way for an average Armagetron player to create a decent public server.
Z-man has expressed several times in the past that that's intentional. Being that this game's servers are hosted by the player base themselves, he wanted to try and ensure that the main people to put up servers would be those who really know what they're doing. I'll let him clarify and elaborate on that if he wants, and state whether he still takes that position.

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Light
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by Light »

sinewav wrote:I have no idea what to do with that script.
If you read the post I made, it tells you exactly what to type in the terminal. It's just download, allow to execute, and then execute.

You seem so backwards on what you want though. You say you want it to be easy, and for it to be done for you. Then you turn around and say you want to learn what to do instead of just having a script run.

If you want to learn how to do it, then you would use the tutorials that exist, along with Google to understand what's going on. If you want to have it done for you, the script will do everything for you up until you need to set up the server scripts. On top of that, it installs ZThread, which many people seem to be having problems with.

I don't think there's anything I can do to make you happy.

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kyle
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by kyle »

Phytotron wrote:You're nutsy. That's not even close to easy or simple. All that stuff requires acquiring a great deal of background knowledge before even getting to that point. That's the problem with geeks; they assume everyone speaks the same language they do. Bunch of Nick Burnses.
Move :)

I was actually joking about it being easy

BTW light, not sure if configure returns an error code if there was one, but you probbaoly should check for both that and the return of make to make sure there where no errors before you continue, a user would not spot them normally.
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sinewav
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by sinewav »

Light wrote:I don't think there's anything I can do to make you happy.
I don't expect you to do anything, I'm explaining the problem by highlighting the knowledge gap between us. Setting up a server is not easy, so any of you guys who say it is have forgotten what an average person has to deal with. Again, your script works for those who use Debian/Ubuntu and know how to work the terminal. Just so you know, not all Ubuntu users are tech savvy. I used Ubuntu for 2 years and I have no idea how to compile a program. To me, a "bootstrap" is part of an actual boot you wear on your foot. Nothing you posted would help a Windows users set up Armagetron on a VPS, which is something I would very much like to do. Does this make sense? I'm looking for people to help bridge the gap. If all you have to offer is "Google it" you are no help at all.

Also, I never said I wanted it done for me, I want a tutorial explaining it. Teach a man to fish, remember? It doesn't help me to Google the things on the wiki I don't understand because it's basically everything. But, if you guys think it's so easy you should be able to explain the process better.

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LOVER$BOY
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Re: Shenanaboosh Server's and Hosting

Post by LOVER$BOY »

sinewav wrote:
Light wrote:I don't think there's anything I can do to make you happy.
I don't expect you to do anything, I'm explaining the problem by highlighting the knowledge gap between us. Setting up a server is not easy, so any of you guys who say it is have forgotten what an average person has to deal with. Again, your script works for those who use Debian/Ubuntu and know how to work the terminal. Just so you know, not all Ubuntu users are tech savvy. I used Ubuntu for 2 years and I have no idea how to compile a program. To me, a "bootstrap" is part of an actual boot you wear on your foot. Nothing you posted would help a Windows users set up Armagetron on a VPS, which is something I would very much like to do. Does this make sense? I'm looking for people to help bridge the gap. If all you have to offer is "Google it" you are no help at all.
+1

I already got fed up with ubuntu when trying to compile and install a server 2 years ago. It was a royal pain. I googled and nothing. I searched the forums and still nothing. It was only after long hours of asking advice from kyle I actually got somewhere.

Afterwards he pointed me to an already existing tutorial on how to set things up. Although it did make sense after a while, it still took me hours and hours of spending time on it to get a grip. Now it all comes to me easy and everything since all it takes me about 6-7 steps to download, compile and install the required packages and the server along with it.
sinewav wrote:Also, I never said I wanted it done for me, I want a tutorial explaining it. Teach a man to fish, remember? It doesn't help me to Google the things on the wiki I don't understand because it's basically everything. But, if you guys think it's so easy you should be able to explain the process better.
Actually I wanted to do it but... as always I couldn't get a screen recorder installed in ubuntu. Maybe I should try installing it in my vmware and then go from there. What do you think?
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