statement of unease

General Stuff about Armagetron, That doesn't belong anywhere else...
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nsh22
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Re: statement of unease

Post by nsh22 »

Yeah, after looking over my post, I seem to come off as a bit dickish. I apologize for that, 2020, it was not my intention to attack you.

Edit1: ah, now that sounds like a good plan 2020.


edit2: Page Break!
Lucifer wrote:I think you got the wrong thread, this thread is the one where we're debating banning sinewav and dubStep until they have a threesome with dubbie's mother.

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2020
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Re: statement of unease

Post by 2020 »

I am sorry for going off on a spin. A few things came together, and I was caught off guard.

I appreciate that you were not meaning to be offensive.

We're good.
hold the line

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Phytotron
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Re: statement of unease

Post by Phytotron »

How about second-round byes (and possibly even (re-)seeding) based on first round margins of victory?
2020 wrote:I have taken a lot of my time, and whoever has read this, to work my way back from an absolutely hideous situation where my motivation, my honour, my attitude, was brought into question to such a degree that... I don't even know where to start.
Good grief and for cryin' out loud, get a grip, dude.
nsh22 wrote:edit2: Page Break!
You suck! I was just about to post, hit "preview" and it gave me the message showing yours had just been made. :x :ghost:

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Lucifer
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Re: statement of unease

Post by Lucifer »

Bah. Quite frankly, 2020, I agree with z-man about recording. There's just too many leaked sex tapes for you to sit there and tell us there's a way for it to be kept secure. And the trust for THAT just isn't there. My wife and I have our own, er, recordings, and the trust for that is definitely there. You see the difference?

I realize you're not asking to make a sex tape, but there are consequences that have to be considered, especially when you add the next thing I'm going to say.

If you talk to me face to face or video/audio the way you talk to me here, I'm a go off on you. And that'll end up on a recording I didn't want made in the first place.

The other real issue here is that you're basically saying "Talk to me on my terms to hear my idea, or else I won't talk about it." A good analogy is standard christian doctrine: You have free will to do whatever you want, but if you don't do what I tell you, you're going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity.

You're not really giving anybody a choice. You're dictating how you want it to go. But it's your idea you want heard, YOU are the one who has to make the compromise. If you feel like you've already taken too many steps, or that your idea can't survive an open forum discussion, then maybe your idea just isn't that worthwhile and you should keep it to yourself. It's up to you.
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Tank Program
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Re: statement of unease

Post by Tank Program »

I think I'm completely turned off the idea of a live session now. There's been a bit too much back and forth for me to feel comfortable with it now. If text is too tedious, I wouldn't mind watching a recorded presentation. Yes, it may still be a bit linear and missing the dynamic feedback, but it's a compromise. 2020 gets his message across in (what I would hope) is a more comfortable format for him, watchers get the information.
2020 wrote:Hopefully this process will be additive, constructive, rather than blown out of the water, spamjacked, and so on given the medium of a forum and its tendency to derail serious engagement on potentially a volatile topic.
I think for this, all you have to do is ask.
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Re: statement of unease

Post by 2020 »

Lucifer wrote:There's just too many leaked sex tapes for you to sit there and tell us there's a way for it to be kept secure.
Well, the simple way is for me to trust you to record it, and I give my word that I won't.

As for having a go at me, I really don't think that will happen. And if it does, you've got the recording, you can get rid of it.

It's not a personal thing. It's because we are talking about money. And we know how things get out of hand in response to it. Seems a sensible precaution, but you've made yourself clear.
hold the line

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Re: statement of unease

Post by 2020 »

Tank Program wrote:I think for this, all you have to do is ask.
Yes, you would have thought...

I got tired of climbing up a slope, as everything I have suggested has been treated pretty badly, suspiciously, and so on. Just look at this thread. And where it came from. The last thread was locked. Why...? Because I posted a link about a 6 year old and learning. That was all.

And you think I just have to ask? And the topic being about one of the most divisive topics there is, money...?

Well... I have tried. The invitation is still there. If we by-pass stage 1, I still have no real idea if the conditions will be fair for stage 2. And if that gets spamjacked or easily derailed, then it may be better to by-pass that and go to stage 3. (Which is the kind of suggestion I've had from players. Ie, pass discussion and just do it.)

We've taken too much time out of our lives already.

Be well.
hold the line

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Kijutsu
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Re: statement of unease

Post by Kijutsu »

lol the way ppl are acting towards 2020 is absolutely pathetic, a bit less sad than lucifer taking every excuse to bring up his ex-wife, wife, kids, sex etc of course. seriously, comparing TALKING with a sex tape? some of us tronners go on teamspeak a lot, does it make you shiver?

"get a grip"

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Tank Program
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Re: statement of unease

Post by Tank Program »

2020 wrote:And you think I just have to ask? And the topic being about one of the most divisive topics there is, money...?
Yes. Because nice moderators can help.

Kijutsu...
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Re: statement of unease

Post by 2020 »

Tank Program wrote:Yes. Because nice moderators can help.
Well, I'd like to leave it better than, "let's hope so"...

We all understand where we stand. So, let's just wait and see.
hold the line

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Re: statement of unease

Post by Z-Man »

And you don't even have to ask, I offered that on page one or two.

Also, wait. Money + Tournament + Internet. Sounds like online gambling, which I don't have anything against personally, mind you, but it's illegal around here (without a special license). And, I think, regulated in the States. If it is anything like that, if money is supposed to change hands influenced by game outcomes, then sorry, I cannot have any part in it.

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Lucifer
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Re: statement of unease

Post by Lucifer »

Z-Man wrote:Also, wait. Money + Tournament + Internet. Sounds like online gambling, which I don't have anything against personally, mind you, but it's illegal around here (without a special license). And, I think, regulated in the States. If it is anything like that, if money is supposed to change hands influenced by game outcomes, then sorry, I cannot have any part in it.
If there's a chance element in the game, like rolling dice or playing cards, then it is illegal to gamble in most states. However, if the game is entirely based on skill, then it's perfectly legal. An informal poker game: illegal. Betting someone $10 on a chess match: legal.

Racing leagues in particular offer purses for the winners, and everyone has to pay a registration fee to race. Totally legal.

The big poker tournaments that go on? Well, they happen either in Las Vegas (where all gambling is legal) or on indian reservations (where all gambling is legal).

I think it's legal for US players to play for money with armagetron. I don't actually have the credentials for that, though. :)
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Z-Man
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Re: statement of unease

Post by Z-Man »

That's sort of what I meant with 'regulated' :) Didn't know about the skill/luck distinction, though, but of course that makes sense.

Turns out betting on yourself in a skill-based game is also legal in Germany (and organising an event based on that). As far as I could find out. Googling sends you to the online gaming platforms quite often, and I don't really consider them reliable sources. Betting on other people's success would count as a sport bet and those require licenses. So looks like we'd be in the clear.

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Re: statement of unease

Post by PokeMaster »

I'm sure it's probably somewhere in this thread, but can someone remind me of the purpose of these betting tournaments? Probably something we should all keep in mind too, even if it's repetitive.
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Re: statement of unease

Post by Z-Man »

Nobody knows :) We're just speculating what 2020's new idea is. And it wouldn't have to be a dedicated wager tournament. It's perfectly possible to plug betting optionally on top of any tournament in a fair way without inconveniencing those who just want to play for fun (apart from the inevitably slightly longer delays in case of disputes).

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