My Satirical Perspective

General Stuff about Armagetron, That doesn't belong anywhere else...
User avatar
Lucifer
Project Developer & Local Moonshiner
Posts: 8610
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:32 pm
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by Lucifer »

Eckz wrote:Z-man, I don't quite understand the ban on liz.
Z-Man wrote:Yes. Because the slightest provocation needs to be answered with full force, and repeated apologies are automatically to be considered insincere and fake.
Lucifer wrote: (Directed to Liz)
You're just not in a position to demand "good" treatment after having been banned multiple times for acting badly. If you want to martyr yourself, go ahead, but last I heard, you were still one misstep away from getting yet another ban for acting like a jerk based entirely on previous behavior.
Eckz: She has a history here. She still has several long-standing feuds that explode into drama about once a month or so. She's made at least one big apology, but hasn't significantly changed her behavior. She's just gone more passive-aggressive. Whatever leniency we offer to people, she's already burned through it several times.

So, she wasn't banned unfairly compared to regiT. regiT doesn't have the kind of history here that she has.
Eckz wrote:Here, regiT started the argument and Liz responded and you ban her for it--even though she didn't, to my knowledge, retaliate in-game, nor did any other collective member. She's been good, but you can't expect hugs and kisses with people who talk behind our back and then to post a public display of something that tries to downplay our clan.

I've talked to both Appa and regiT in hopes to settle whatever drama was cause by their less-than-satisfying method of trying to get us to become a more sociable group with them and the community--which I wouldn't much care for now if it resulted in bans for getting upset about their approach.
Drama requires you to play along. If you wanted to avoid drama, you (more specifically, Liz) could have just blown it off. There are obviously people who agree with the original post, and there are also obviously people who disagree with the original post. So the post wasn't going to hurt you in any way.

Now, if you had ignored it, or even played along with the nature of the post, people would now be looking at you and your clan in a different light, a better one. We'd all be like "Hey, those guys are cool, even when people talk trash about them, they just hang with it. Maybe their clan is cooler than the others." Now, instead, we're all thinking something more like "It's just another Clan of Vanity, insensitive to players not in their clan, and overly sensitive to anything critical of their clan. Damn, this is why we hate clans." So, I suppose your "defend our reputation" bit didn't work out, because your defense backfired.

Oops.
Image

Be the devil's own, Lucifer's my name.
- Iron Maiden

regiT
On Lightcycle Grid
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by regiT »

I still fail to see any provocation, argumentative tone, or antagonizing in anything that Appa or I have written.

I feel like you are trying to paint us in a negative light only to support the detrimental posts of your own clan members.

I'm sorry if you found my original post offensive, but if that's the case then you do not understand what a satire is and I would encourage you to look it up.

If satires were meant to be taken seriously at face value then we would still have impoverished Irish people selling their children as food to the wealthy. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, Huckleberry Finn would never have done what was right even though he was raised to consider it morally wrong! (good job Huckleberry)

And I was quite unaware that there was a back story to all of this. I only recently started to play Tron again and if the few snide remarks I've made during that time elicits a full blown attack on my character, or Appa's, then there is something seriously wrong.

Maybe just leave this alone and time can heal your unwarranted wounds.

User avatar
sinewav
Graphic Artist
Posts: 6303
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:37 am
Contact:

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by sinewav »

regiT wrote:I still fail to see any provocation, argumentative tone, or antagonizing in anything that Appa or I have written.

I feel like you are trying to paint us in a negative light only to support the detrimental posts of your own clan members.
Except your boy apparition threw you under the bus with this statement:

"But you obviously see why regiT wrote this and reacted in a way that effectively demonstrated his point."

That makes me think it was intended to provoke, and it was premeditated.
regiT wrote:I'm sorry if you found my original post offensive, but if that's the case then you do not understand what a satire is and I would encourage you to look it up.
Being condescending doesn't help either man.

Also...
regiT wrote:But you are right, we should all follow the 'better player creed' of "play more, talk less." That way we can all turn into lifeless droids that are so enthralled with light cycles that we don't have the time to establish a sense of community.
Yeah, put me on the droid list please. I'd like to see a lot less banal chatter in game. I actually have a lot of respect for Collective's "collective" ability to not fill my console with derps and lulz. Also, there is plenty of community right here - more than most can handle actually.

(For the record, 90% of the time I play sumo with "enable_chat 0" because of the constant nonsense pouring all over my screen. It's a bad as CTF in there.)

User avatar
MrsKsr
Shutout Match Winner
Posts: 807
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:37 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by MrsKsr »

sinewav wrote:
regiT wrote:But you are right, we should all follow the 'better player creed' of "play more, talk less." That way we can all turn into lifeless droids that are so enthralled with light cycles that we don't have the time to establish a sense of community.
Yeah, put me on the droid list please. I'd like to see a lot less banal chatter in game. I actually have a lot of respect for Collective's "collective" ability to not fill my console with derps and lulz. Also, there is plenty of community right here - more than most can handle actually.

(For the record, 90% of the time I play sumo with "enable_chat 0" because of the constant nonsense pouring all over my screen. It's a bad as CTF in there.)
Amen. As of late I've gotten sick of talking as well. People seem to enjoy chatting more than they do playing which baffles me, there's always VOIP if you want to talk non-stop. There's nothing wrong with being quiet while you play, it doesn't make you a droid or anti-social just because you don't socialise with everybody all the time.

As for Liz; I honestly think that she has changed quite a lot. There was a time when I couldn't get along with her at all, but she is different. If you can't see that then you don't know her even in the slightest bit, so don't act like you do just because of some arguments on the forum. It's all good and well for you all to sit there and say she has feuds going on, but they are two sided. You can't lay all the blame on her when she is trying to change all while people are constantly bringing up garbage from the past to her face.

The ban was unfair. Seriously, but whatever.
"You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one;
I hope some day you will join us, and the world can live as one"


“Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.”

I believe that to truly love is the ultimate expression of the will to live.

Gonzap
Shutout Match Winner
Posts: 916
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:08 pm

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by Gonzap »

MrsKsr wrote:As for Liz; I honestly think that she has changed quite a lot. There was a time when I couldn't get along with her at all, but she is different. If you can't see that then you don't know her even in the slightest bit, so don't act like you do just because of some arguments on the forum. It's all good and well for you all to sit there and say she has feuds going on, but they are two sided. You can't lay all the blame on her when she is trying to change all while people are constantly bringing up garbage from the past to her face.

The ban was unfair. Seriously, but whatever.
No. She is the same, she just don't shout it out loud as she did before. She still can rage on you for some unexpected reason (she did towards me in an wst funwar ct vs `'c because i attempted to joke with her), insults and provokations included.

She hasnt changed a little bit.

User avatar
Phytotron
Formerly Oscilloscope
Posts: 5041
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:06 pm
Location: A site or situation, especially considered in regard to its surroundings.
Contact:

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by Phytotron »

Satire?

For whatever it's worth, or its relevance, I don't think I had ever heard of this clan until they began responding to the original post. I originally just thought it was a satire about clans in general.

devicat
On Lightcycle Grid
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:59 am

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by devicat »

All of this has gotten totally out of hand. As both a member of The Collective, and someone who experiences the attitude of Appa and Regit on a regular basis, I am going to attempt to provide at least a little insight.

I think that a lot of what these two interpret of the collective "collectively" is based off of my own behavior, and occasionally that of Eckz. Usually, when I am playing, I am playing to win, and not to have conversation in game. Some people like to talk a lot in game, but that's just not me; though I do have my more talkative days occasionally.

Both Appa and Regit actually confronted me about this in-game once, explaining to me that it bothered them that I rarely spoke. Once I began speaking to them, the tension between us seemed to wear off. I'm not entirely sure what it was that irritated them, but they made it clear that something was creating that tension.

I admit to lolling when I read this satire. I mean, that is exactly the purpose of satire. However, as with any satire, it is meant to hide a somewhat more serious message underneath. Rather than explicitly posting that he did not like the attitude of The Collective, it was put into a humorous parody. The parody itself made me laugh, however, the fact that our quiet nature actually bothered these two still eludes me. As far as I am concerned, there is nothing wrong with our silence. I could understand if we were being openly confrontational toward other players, but that is entirely not the case.

On the other hand, if this was truly meant to be /JUST/ for the purpose of comedy, I apologize on behalf of my clanmates for allowing this to escalate. After seeing this for the first time, I actually entered a server and started joking to Regit about it. I saw no problem with it, as I was already aware of their issue with us.

Some people take offense to things in different ways than myself, though. Eckz and Liz obviously did not like the things said about us. Where as I can simply shrug it off, they are much more defensive of us as a whole. I can personally attest to Liz's changed behavior, as I have had no quarrels with her since joining the collective. Before her revelation, I could not even enter a server with her without getting chewed out, so there is evidence of effort being made.

Without exposing any sensitive information, suffice it to say that this is a bit of a trying time for Liz in her personal life, so you must take her attitude with a grain of salt. People can be touchy at times, but I don't see it a reason to lay the hammer down on someone.

Regit, Appa, I've nothing against either of you, personally. See you on the grid, dudes.

regiT
On Lightcycle Grid
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by regiT »

Well said Devi. This sounds like a good ending point.

Thanks to everyone for a festive topic.

I'm going to continue to do my thing and let me be me.

Should I offend anyone else in the future please do not expect me to apologize for who I am. I could care less whether you consider me an assbag or friend, but I will not repeat the mistake of defending my character in a forum.

Peace and <3

User avatar
apparition
Match Winner
Posts: 628
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:59 am
Location: The Mitten, USA

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by apparition »

There were lot of antagonizing and adversarial reactions from people, and pushing in both directions. I think some people were just trying to make a balanced argument, but it got worse because of it. Diplomacy would have made this situation blow over quicker. Maybe we all just reacted without thinking? Once I thought about it, I decided I may as well talk openly since people got so pissed. So, I supplied more ammo to launch even at myself. I really am sorry - this shouldn't have happened and I swear on my mom's heartbeat that none of it was pre-meditated...

I don't think Liz should be banned, she was reacting and was one side of the situation. If it didn't need to happen, we'll never know I guess.

Let's just remember that this is the internets and not everything written can be conveyed in the tone we want it to be.

It sucks that people are arguing against community, whether in-game or on the forums. It's all about the game, right? The game and the people are what make this whole experience awesome. I am glad to know that you enable_chat 0 though, sine, because you haven't been responding to me lately :)

Clearly things are quieting down and we can move on. Just another misunderstanding on the internet, but you know, I bet we could all sit down at a nice cafe and have some good talks and laughs :)

See you on the grid!!

User avatar
sinewav
Graphic Artist
Posts: 6303
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:37 am
Contact:

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by sinewav »

apparition wrote:I am glad to know that you enable_chat 0 though, sine, because you haven't been responding to me lately :)
Usually if I'm not responding that's the case. Even with my chat disabled I sometimes press an instant on accident or even chat a line of text without remembering I won't see a response. But of course, if I were mad at any of you I would just be mean to you, not ignore you. That's my style.

User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11382
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by Z-Man »

Oh, all right, if even appa pleads for it, I'll lift the ban early. But just for voque, can't be bothered about the others.

However, I have to say this: When someone is banned, I'm wearing my FORUM moderator hat. That means what matters is how you behaved on the forums. You can be an angel outside, have a heart of gold or go through tough times, receive hate on the grid, it all doesn't matter (well, a bit). Liz had a very recent warning on her head and honestly, her posts over the past six months were spam (animated gifs and no1currs) in large enough part to be negatively noticed. Judging by her forum posts, she pretty much reverted to her pre-apology-old-self and needed a kick in the rear. And I really don't have time for this crap:
vogue wrote:If you're gonna ban me just do it, I don't care about your threats.
Regarding the 'ban both if you have to do anything' suggestion: It's as Lucifer said. regiT hadn't done anything wrong here before. The suspicions that he actively and willingly provoked have been noted and may influence future moderation.
Phytotron wrote:I originally just thought it was a satire about clans in general.
Same here. I suppose their creed is readable on their registered-users-only forum.

And, of course, IMHO playing silently is perfectly fine.

User avatar
Kijutsu
Match Winner
Posts: 676
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:37 pm

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by Kijutsu »

Before I post this, I want to say that I really don't want to drag this on infact I never even wanted this topic to exist, but I have things I want to say about this before the topic gets locked. First of all:
regiT wrote:I'm going to continue to do my thing and let me be me.

Should I offend anyone else in the future please do not expect me to apologize for who I am. I could care less whether you consider me an assbag or friend, but I will not repeat the mistake of defending my character in a forum.

Peace and <3
You know what? I fully agree with this post. The only problem is that you didn't let us be ourselves and expected us to apologize and change our behaviour, something you seem fully against when it applies to yourself. Apply this logic to everyone else please, then there won't be any issues.

Second of all, stop acting so innocent. On this forum you're preaching peace and love and acting to be all innocent without intent but in the mean time you're harassing me ingame keep in mind that I haven't said a single word because my chat key wasn't even bound:

http://img819.imageshack.us/i/69239082.jpg/ < I don't have words for this one.

http://img98.imageshack.us/i/12551250.jpg/ < Calling me a bitch for.. what again?

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/2762/10794440.jpg < Loling every. single. time. I die, if I took a screenshot of all the times you did it I'd still be uploading right now.

http://img836.imageshack.us/i/12990406.jpg/ < "I'm going to continue to do my thing and let me be me." Let me be me, stop bringing up the issue when I ignore you.

http://img860.imageshack.us/i/63955055.jpg/ < "Should I offend anyone else in the future please do not expect me to apologize for who I am." Exactly, I'm not gonna apologize or change my behaviour because you're so offended by my silence.

In other words, stop harassing me and drop the ridiculous issue you have.

I apologize to everyone for this nonsense but I had to have my say, as everyone had in this topic. Especially to Z-Man, I shouldn't have been so rude but I was frustrated.

User avatar
apparition
Match Winner
Posts: 628
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:59 am
Location: The Mitten, USA

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by apparition »

Okay...

Moving on. See you on the grid!

User avatar
Tank Program
Forum & Project Admin, PhD
Posts: 6709
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:03 pm

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by Tank Program »

*hack hack*
Image

User avatar
akira
Core Dumper
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: Neo-Tokyo

Re: My Satirical Perspective

Post by akira »

What? (This is my thought about this thread, basically)

I'd be happy if people would not fill the chatbox with utter nonsense 90% of the time I had played this game. I come to play not to try squeezing in text messages in a quite demanding game (attention-wise). I'd be using voicechat or a dedicated IM client for that purpose.
On the other hand poop-instantchats are really moronic spam too.

Post Reply