The truth about TR2N Origins

General Stuff about Armagetron, That doesn't belong anywhere else...
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Z-Man
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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by Z-Man » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:49 pm

Phytotron wrote:Why would one need to authenticate a local game, anyway?
It won't authenticate then. Why would it?

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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by FoFo » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:51 pm

i put off the movie pack , and changed texture , floor etc , i took same texture as AA and it looks like exactly the same thing exeipt that with 160 pings u dont rly feel like u r laggin, interesting but i ll stay to basics :P
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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by Phytotron » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:08 pm

Z-Man wrote:
Phytotron wrote:Why would one need to authenticate a local game, anyway?
It won't authenticate then. Why would it?
The "Local user not found" thing? I don't know; apparently that refers to something else. http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 75#p213975

I read that whole authentication config file and, well, let's say it's obvious it was written by a programmer. Or maybe I'm just stupid.

I do think you guys could take some lessons from Sagan and other "pop science" writers in describing things practically (how they translate to actual gameplay), rather than theoretically (the physics math).

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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by Luke-Jr » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:40 pm

Using Konqueror 4.3... these forums require at least 10.35 inches (1025 pixels!) to avoid a horizontal scrollbar. TR2NOrigins.net requires 12.28 inches (1216 pixels) wide. IMO, websites and applications should not require scrolling provided the display is at least 6 inches wide (at usual eye-monitor distance). Obviously various factors such as font size, window manager, and DPI can vary the actual in-practise widths, but text should be designed to wrap rather than force horizontal-scroll, and such other things...

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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by DDMJ » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:53 pm

freako wrote:There's a delay between the keystroke and the actual turn in the game
Yea, I noticed that too. It's subtle, but noticeable.

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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by madmax » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:28 pm

DDMJ wrote:
freako wrote:There's a delay between the keystroke and the actual turn in the game
Yea, I noticed that too. It's subtle, but noticeable.
After a long time using trunk with the old glancing, I had to go back to 0.2.8 last Sunday, and I noticed exactly the absence of that delay. Maybe this should be looked into? :?:
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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by Z-Man » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:54 pm

So, 0.2.8.2 hasn't got the delay, 0.2.8.3 and trunk have it?
Edit: can you go to the Performance Tweaks submenu and set the Swap Mode to Finish? And if that helps, post your user.cfg? (The lines with GL_ in them are enough)

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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by compguygene » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:18 pm

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by having rubber be implemented in a more desirable way? In thinking of what will be our trunk version, and discussions we have had about it, I would like to hear a concise explanation of some of what you feel the foibles of the implementation of the current rubber system are. I would also like to hear what you might think might be some of the characteristics of a better implementation of rubber. Having played with the various CYCLE_RUBBER characteristics to achieve certain goals, I would like to hear what people who know more than I do about the current rubber implementation have to say.
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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by Lucifer » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:24 pm

compguygene wrote:Could you please elaborate on what you mean by having rubber be implemented in a more desirable way? In thinking of what will be our trunk version, and discussions we have had about it, I would like to hear a concise explanation of some of what you feel the foibles of the implementation of the current rubber system are. I would also like to hear what you might think might be some of the characteristics of a better implementation of rubber. Having played with the various CYCLE_RUBBER characteristics to achieve certain goals, I would like to hear what people who know more than I do about the current rubber implementation have to say.
Keep it out of the user's eyes, focus purely on using it to deal with network latency, and if you want something in the user's eyes that behaves like rubber, create some new physical model for it.

We have all these configuration options for rubber that aren't really useful for dealing with network latency because too many people put their hands into it (not coding hands, playing hands).

I'm in favor of factoring out all the non-network latency stuff from rubber and giving it a new name, and a new concept. Like make the walls and the cycles the same electrical charge, and making the base model for something called "Wall Repulsion" simply Coulomb's Law.
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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by Phytotron » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:38 am

To my mind, there are 2-3 fundamental flaws with rubber (and of course I speak from the practical gameplay side, not the coding/physics side). The first and most important is the "depth of grind"—the fact that I can make supposed "contact" with a wall for n (time or distance), then you can come make contact for n+1, and get behind my wall. I guess this is related as well to mindistance. The fact that there's this spongy, invisible force that keeps the cycle (or point, if the cycle is just cosmetic) from actually making contact with a wall, and that it can always be pressed a little closer—whether it's accomplished with adjusts, 180's, or an old fasioned pure grind. I would have that behaviour completely done away with.

Of course, I don't expect this to be changed considering that most everyone likes that aspect of the game, unfortunately.

The other flaw is the cumulative expenditure of rubber, with regeneration. That is, _RUBBER_TIME. It doesn't make sense to me that it should matter how long it has been since the last time I made contact with a wall, unless you want to argue that it's some sort of shield, but I'm not going to do that.


So, that's just elaboration on what I already described here. And to clarify, this "wall touching system" would be completely independent of whatever was done to deal with latency.

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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by Phytotron » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:57 am

Phytotron wrote:Is Frozen's link (http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 65#p217065) legit and safe, and if so, why isn't that build just on the main TR2N site?

Z-Man wrote:So, 0.2.8.2 hasn't got the delay, 0.2.8.3 and trunk have it?
Repeating myself, but I don't notice any delay.

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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by FroZen » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:15 am

Phytotron wrote:
Phytotron wrote:Is Frozen's link (http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 65#p217065) legit and safe, and if so, why isn't that build just on the main TR2N site?
I know this doesn't mean much, but yes, it's legit and safe. You can download the build off the main Tr2n site now, I only posted that link because it wasn't updated on the site that day.

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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by compguygene » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:14 am

Thank you for your concise explanation, Lucifer. I am going to add it to my list of "stuff to do right". I always found the various rubber settings to be confusing, and almost conflicting at best. Now, it all makes a lot more sense.

Phytotron, I completely understand your desire to eliminate "depth of grind". I think many of us have a different opinion about the issue.
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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by Phytotron » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:31 pm

Oh man, there's a little bit of the blind leading the blind going on over there on their forums. :? I don't know that that's necessarily "noob friendly." (Oh, how I hate the word "noob" and all its variants.)

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Re: The truth about TR2N Origins

Post by Z-Man » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:44 pm

"Newbie", I think, is the generally accepted friendly term you'd be looking for.

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