Ripping and jumping outside the grid

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Your_mom
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Ripping and jumping outside the grid

Post by Your_mom »

a couple days ago i unkowingly ripped a server(forget witch server) only realizing it had ripped when another player mentioned it.After this i was weary of grinding for a day or 2, and just now i was playing in tigers teamplay and i jumped out side the areana no rip just jumped outside and couldnt return inside. while i have seen this happen before i dont know the harm it will cause the server. I did not mean to do this in either incadent , I would like to appologize and hope for forgivement also i would like to know if you guys are working on code to prevent such occurances.

Forgive my terrible spelling
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Post by ishAdmin »

Tank said he didn't think he could get a handle on that problem. I don't know if any other coders know how to fix it either.

I was thinking it would be simple enough to test for player position, and if anyone is outside of (or right on) the outer boundary, they get bounced back to immediately inside.

I did an accidental rip the other day myself. When ever you grind the outer wall I suppose there is some risk. I'm not certain exactly what makes a rip fatal to the game. If anyone knows, I'd appreciate being informed on this. That could be done privately if you think it shouldn't be public knowledge.
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root down
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Post by root down »

what did you do, sounds like you bounced to the outside or something?
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Post by k »

ishAdmin wrote:I was thinking it would be simple enough to test for player position, and if anyone is outside of (or right on) the outer boundary, they get bounced back to immediately inside.
Something like this is on our todo list for the next release though my suggestion was for immediate flaming death if you went outside the arena walls. :twisted:
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Post by ishAdmin »

yeah, ok, flaming death! I like it! :lol:
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Yaza Yamagotchi
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Post by Yaza Yamagotchi »

I suggest -10 points + death for going outside the walls - can never make the penalty for that too harsh! :P
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Tank Program
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Post by Tank Program »

I think that's a little too high for something that can happen accidentally... Plus would totally ruin gameplace... It's way too much of an upset to the scores. It should be customizable like all other aspects of the game are.
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Post by nicolas.b »

Yaza Yamagotchi wrote:I suggest -10 points + death for going outside the walls - can never make the penalty for that too harsh! :P
i love it-- perfect!

and it may be harsh, but it's only a single unhappy incident. it rarely happens by accident and when it does you could compare it to your car crashing thru the guiderails because you were trying to take those twisty cliff-side roads too fast like you see on the car commercials.
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/dev/null
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An interesting idea.

Post by /dev/null »

This is probably retardly hard to implement, but damn it would be cool.
How about any time the grid gets ripped/someone gets outside, the grid merely expands to put them back inside and redoes the walls.
Might cause a bit of lag till it stops moving, but it would be awesome, not to mention the moving grid wall would smash the person outside.
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Post by iceman »

why dont you just limit the cycles to a small distance in from the actual area wall ?

this would stop the possibility of ripping and you would just hit your own wall on the 180 instead of being pushed outside the grid

seems like a simple fix to me
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/dev/null
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ripping.

Post by /dev/null »

Lines can be ripped too, im thinking that even limiting the distance to the wall you can get would still have the same effect as the grid wall, and you could potentially rip that down too.
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Re: ripping.

Post by Lucifer »

/dev/null wrote:Lines can be ripped too, im thinking that even limiting the distance to the wall you can get would still have the same effect as the grid wall, and you could potentially rip that down too.
Why don't we just accept that that's the way it must be? I mean, if the programs don't have an opportunity to escape, they can't free themselves by crashing the CPU. So it's just the natural order of things, I think.

Now where'd I put that frisbee....
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philippeqc
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Post by philippeqc »

Hehe

I've just re-read the discussion where most people are agains my anti-camping idea (its ok, I understand, I just though that the amount of wining agains camping was an indication of a problem http://guru3.sytes.net/viewtopic.php?t=1087). But then I read this thread where ppl are ready to linch rim grinders!

Yes yes, I know, one has the potential of crashing the server while the other only is a lame tactic.

The _PROBLEM_ is that somehow, a player get to be EXACTLY over the rim without crashing into it. Probably it involves a small amount of rubber correction to slide the player over the rim. This is where the problem has to be intercepted.

What happens after this is that the player is allowed to replace the rim by his trace. Doubling back remove the players trace. Then he is free to go "outside".

A quick detail on the inner working of the game. The surface of play is actually one VERY big triangle. And everything else is triangles. So if you insert a point on it, lets say the first corner of the rim at game creation, the big triangle is splitted in 3, the new point at the intersection. The second point of the rim is somewhere in one of the newly created triangles. To insert it, you split that triangle in 3 again. Any new points will always be somewhere within one of the smaller triangles and generate new triangles. (I'm skipping many detail for your convenience). But if a player excape the rim and roams around, he may encounter the edge of the big original triangle. And there is no mechanism defined for insertion of triangles OUTSIDE of the original one, and the game crash.

So the ONLY problem with being outside is that the game doesnt have any good mechanism to deal with some of the situations.

The game is build to kill players on collisions with something. And only that. There are no in or out of the rim concept, no limits, the rim itself is just a bunch of walls slightly different than the trace you leave. So any player fooling the collision mechanism pretty much get a free way out.

If you made a small square arena and started with the players outside and everybody never went too far away, it would still be a valid game.

That being said, about some of the ideas:
ishAdmin wrote:I was thinking it would be simple enough to test for player position, and if anyone is outside of (or right on) the outer boundary, they get bounced back to immediately inside.
iceman wrote:why dont you just limit the cycles to a small distance in from the actual area wall ?
No in or out ideas in the game. So no "margin" distance from the in of the game...
nicolas.b wrote:and it may be harsh, but it's only a single unhappy incident. it rarely happens by accident and when it does you could compare it to your car crashing thru the guiderails because you were trying to take those twisty cliff-side roads too fast like you see on the car commercials.
I'm really bad at outside rim grinding (the act of grinding it tight, not removing it). Often on some lag condition, I'd be rendered out of the grid and slide back inside. Should I be penalised for that? Should it matter considering that your average player can pass 2-3 times in the real space between my trace and the rim once the sliding is done?
/dev/null wrote:How about any time the grid gets ripped/someone gets outside, the grid merely expands to put them back inside and redoes the walls.
Are you saying scale the rim to be bigger? That would just push it further away, screw ppl who worked hard to trap someone, and it would still be possible to re-destroy it. If I understood your suggestion right.

Now to some fabulations:
If the game was fixed not to crash when someone leave the big triangle, then what? Do they explode when reaching invisible boundaries, just cant move further than the boundary, or do we always expand the boundary for them to have a place to rool? It could become the new camping, but then ppl where ok about letting camping in. You can always chase a runaway, or consede the game and trash yourself.

Just some thinking material!

-ph

Nota: my position on outer rooling is:
- Let them
- Fix game so it doesnt crash
- Dont necessarely enlage the big triangle, hold them inside even if sometime the bikes appear to be pushing on invisible boundaries
- On later version, with complex 3D arenas, fix the missed collisions.

In other words, I'll go play frisbee with lucifer ;)
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Post by iceman »

if only i could get a c++ compiler that works on windows 98 and will compile armagetron :cry:
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philippeqc
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Post by philippeqc »

Visual C++ should be one (like version 6 or anything later)

or get sigwin, a "unix for ms-windows" environment. It works a bit like a dos prompt, but gives you the usual set of un*x tools, including gcc and gdb.

or check on download.com

but I moved away from ms-windows some time ago, so there might be other alternatives that are more ms-windows centric. The prob will be that they might be TOO centric and be a pain to report your changes.
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