Seriously

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Titanoboa
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Seriously

Post by Titanoboa »

We finally have our long-awaited steam release. For those of us who were playing back in January/February, back when there were like 9 regulars, steam was but a pipe dream and something we could only fantasize about.

Then came the pandemic, and with it a relatively large amount of returning players who would check the server list and since the servers weren't all empty for once, some of them stuck around. We started having sumo tournaments and tst pickup games, and eventually we even brought back the ladle and 6v6 fortress pickup became a common thing. Amazing! This game was a thing again. We even got a plethora of dynamically sized sumo bars and a sumo bar league with 4 organized sessions per week! Take a minute to let that sink in. I think we can all agree that this was a very improbable fluke.

Now, just as most people have been getting back to their jobs, the game is finally on steam. Like we wanted so badly for so long. And players are flowing in. Not by the dozen like some might have hoped, but we're getting new players checking out the game every day. Some of them quit immediately, some stay for a while, and some are even joining the discord and trying to learn fort. If we're really lucky, we'll keep getting a few new players every day for a little while longer.

And for the first time in a long, long, long time ... like 7-9 years or something, I don't know ... we had a public fort game going on with a mix of experienced players and almost more newbies than we could handle, sometimes 3 at once and definitely more than 5 in the whole session. I'm talking about 7v7(+) fortress, not some 3v2 "winners attack" situation. And what do I see some of you guys saying? "This is boring," "they suck," "add pickup so we can play for real," "your team doesn't even have a def". Seriously? How short-sighted are you?! We finally have the opportunity to welcome a new generation of players into our community and you're whining because you didn't get to play a 2nd back-to-back pickup that night? Get your shit together, and do your best to think more than half an hour ahead ... if you're capable of it.

I've seen the argument that "nobody was nice to me when I started, but I kept going". Yeah, maybe you did. Many of us here today did. But obviously that general strategy didn't work out too great, now did it? There were multiple factors behind the fort community dying (or going into a deep coma), but scaring away new players was definitely one of them. Let's learn from our mistakes, please.

We can't be wasting this opportunity. We have to be smarter. We need to think about what's best for the future of this game.

We'll still have our pickup games and the other competitions, and we'll still have dynamic sumo bars where only experienced players can win matches no matter how many times we tell the noobs to stay in the zone. But we can be smart about it and sometimes set aside the immediate fun to instead invest our time into the future of the game. The skill gap is huge as it is, and we're unlikely to get another world crisis helping us out — right? So let's make the best of this chance — it might be our last one.

------------

I just want to make it clear that most of you have been behaving brilliantly and many of you have made sacrifices for the good of the community. You know who you are. And those of us who have been acting poorly in regard to accomodating new players have probably been doing so due to a lack of attention, or simply by treating others how you were treated when you were new. What I'm saying is I'm not holding anything against you, I just ask that you think about our situation and act in the best way you possibly can, now that you're aware.

We don't need to be the bestest friends foreverest to be able to share a common goal and work together to achieve it regardless of our differences.

Finally, to those of you who think I'm overreacting and grasping at straws, here's a steam review we got recently. I was half-considering making this post before, too, but reading this made me go through with it.
Negative Steam Review wrote:Veteran players can be mean and demeaning to others. No helpful practice servers or guidance. In this game you are pretty much on your own. Be sure not to try and ask too many questions about how to play or they might silence or kick you from their server. Client is buggy and crashes a lot. Not even playable in windowed mode. Tried the client from their website which was a little better. Overall not recommended. If you look at the positive reviews, they are all from players who have been around for a long time.
Let's make sure that that's the last review of its kind, OK?

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sinewav
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Re: Seriously

Post by sinewav »

Titanoboa wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:37 pm
...here's a steam review we got recently.
That's disappointing.I guess it's up to casual players like myself who aren't competitive to spend more time in-game. I'll try to get on the grid, though I'm generally a pretty busy guy these days.

Rnoodles
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Re: Seriously

Post by Rnoodles »

It is disappointing to see, could it be an older player keeping a grudge? Some extra patience is definitely required with the new guys, especially if they show an interest in team games like fort and are maybe even keen for a pickup game. I know some of the community would prefer to keep pickups strictly experienced players and I would agree but maybe a bit further down the track after a bigger player base is built. Letting one sub in every now and then wouldn't hurt and is the best way for them to learn.
I've been playing this game for many years and i'm only just learning the team dynamics in fort, ive learnt the quickest through recent pickup games even though i may have tk'd a few times and cost my team a few rounds, having an understanding team really helped.
For everyone taking the time to teach the new guys, keep it up :D some of them are already keen to play tournaments!

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Titanoboa
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Re: Seriously

Post by Titanoboa »

Rnoodles wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:45 am
I know some of the community would prefer to keep pickups strictly experienced players
That's absolutely ridiculous. Where do we draw the line then? Because some of the players who started in 2012 are still pretty bad.

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Re: Seriously

Post by Monkey »

Reading this negative review annoyed the hell out of me at how some of us are still not welcoming new players to the game. :x

Also, the attitude that Pickup should only be for experienced players is completely wrong. Pickup should be for anyone that wants to join (as long as they are not deliberately trying to sabotage it). We should be encouraging new players and teaching them. Nobody wants to learn fort by watching hours of pickup matches or competitions that they can't be involved in, it's common sense, people! There is not much open fort going on because of Pickup so let them join in!
Playing since December 2006

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compguygene
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Re: Seriously

Post by compguygene »

When pickup was created, many of us complained of how it destroyed public fort. And it did. Back in the days of Fortress Cafe and 12 v 12 Fortress without pickup servers, experienced players would go find players in other servers and bring them over to Fortress Cafe. The mods there not only deliberately took newbies under their wings, and there were a lot of mods. We are a small communtiy. If we are to grow, we need to take every opportunity to encourage newbies not to be abandoned to a pickup game. These comments are downright scary.
I really think that we should organize a set of public servers. This has been talked about many times before. I really think that an M-Fort server might be best for this.
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Titanoboa
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Re: Seriously

Post by Titanoboa »

Thanks for your input. I very much agree that we should look back on what worked the first time the fort community grew.
compguygene wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:27 am
I really think that an M-Fort server might be best for this.
We do have RetroCycles MegaFortress, US and EU both. Whenever we find ourselves getting a game going, a few vocal and ambitious players are vouching for pickup until it happens.

I enjoy the pickup games. I just wish we'd put more effort into the public games even though it's not as challenging for everyone, and make them more commonplace.

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Re: Seriously

Post by GluGGsel »

I second that, Tita!
Let's come back to why we play games: fun with friends. Challenges and tourneys are still welcome, but tron should not be all (or mostly) about that.
GluGGsel greets :goatee:

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aP|Nelg
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Re: Seriously

Post by aP|Nelg »

compguygene wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:27 am
I really think that an M-Fort server might be best for this.
It's still up.
Screenshot from 2020-07-27 18-22-27.png
For those who don't know what it is, see viewtopic.php?f=79&t=23846

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compguygene
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Re: Seriously

Post by compguygene »

Let me clarify what I really meant because my post does not do it justice. I mean official public servers!

I know m-fort is still up, I was thinking that in many ways m-fort should be the spiritual successor to Fortress Cafe.

I will never forget the post pickup era. Because I did not like the atmosphere of pickup and cant commit to it because i randomly need to leave, I gave up on playing fortress. Everytime that a pickup game would be planned, the current game dies. I don't know what you do to counter this, but to this day I avoid playing fortress for this reason, just when a good game with some noobs gets started.....
And all those negative comments on steam! I think that whoever hosts pickup should just take it down.... I know it's harsh. But the idea of the steam release was to get players. When people leave bad comments, because of our bad behavior.. we are dooming tron to be played only by a few elite players. If it goes that way.....it's just to sad for words. Newbie players should be cherished and loved
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Z-Man
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Re: Seriously

Post by Z-Man »

compguygene wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:42 am
Let me clarify what I really meant because my post does not do it justice. I mean official public servers!
I don't have time to put anything significant up and deal with moderation and stuff. But I can certainly give any server an official blessing. We have default configurations distributed with the game; without additional code, we could make them bookmarked by default, which would display them more prominently in the browser as well, or just with a score bias.
My only condition would be that the moderation needs to be newbie friendly. The game mode is not important.

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Titanoboa
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Re: Seriously

Post by Titanoboa »

I'd just like to say that the way we've ben handling things since I felt a need to start this thread has been better than I expected. It seems that we're working together to accomodate the newbies in a better way and, well, let's just hope they keep trickliing in.

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Titanoboa
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Re: Seriously

Post by Titanoboa »

I'd just like to say that the way we've ben handling things since I felt a need to start this thread has been better than I expected. It seems that we're working together to accomodate the newbies in a better way and, well, let's just hope they keep trickliing in.

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Re: Seriously

Post by Word »

yeah i ******* hated pickups from the beginning. can't you guys just abolish them altogether?

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Agility
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Re: Seriously

Post by Agility »

If you water grass it grows, lets treat newbies like grass! If we do we may have abundance!

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