Operating systems and other software discussion

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sinewav
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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by sinewav »

delinquent wrote:What phone do you have, ooi?
Model: Motorola Moto E 2nd Gen (LTE)
Hardware SKU: XT1527
System version: 23.211.6.surnia_att.att.en.USatt
Build: LPIS23.29-18.9-6

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delinquent
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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by delinquent »

You... might be in luck.

There's a shit-ton of threads about AT&T's meaninglesss policy to prevent bootloader unlocking (which, incidentally, doesn't work because sim-locking is easily bypassed and updates are easily disabled, among other things). However, some interesting tidbits came up in my research:

http://blog.azimuthsecurity.com/2013/04 ... oader.html

Essentially, this exploit takes advantage of a TrustZone vulnerability, but it's not for the faint of heart. It does, however, prove that we can indeed unlock an AT&T device. However, it's for an architecture that is completely different, and is based on a rather severe documentation leak. Plus, once a QFuse is blown I'm not entirely sure that the corresponding function can be returned to normal - indeed, this is a warning given to people who do manage to unlock their Motorola devices - it is supposed to be irreversible.

I then found this: http://bits-please.blogspot.co.uk/2015/ ... m8974.html

That post covers a very intriguing aspect of TrustZone that might be reproducible with other chipsets, as this comment suggests: http://bits-please.blogspot.co.uk/2015/ ... 3959356819

Indeed, there's a post covering the execution of this exploit here: https://bits-please.blogspot.co.uk/2016 ... oader.html

Finally, a Python script accomplishing this is on the author's github: https://github.com/laginimaineb/Alohamora

However, it's not for your chipset, so you'll need to play around with IDA and figure out what differences exist between the chipsets and their corresponding aboot files.

That's something I don't really have the skills to do, nor do I have an AT&T phone to test with, so the rest is up to you. My theory is that it is entirely possible, but I can't prove it.

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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by sinewav »

Thanks for looking into this. Unfortunately, all of this is beyond me. I don't have the time to learn everything necessary to jailbreak my devices. My best course of action is to buy a popular development model and install LineageOS on it. :?

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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by delinquent »

The Axon 7 looked incredibly promising, as do the recent Nokia models. Not as superbly expensive as other phones, too, and all officially supported by LineageOS.

FWIW I won't ever buy a phone from a carrier, the majority of carriers like to build a version of the OS specifically for them which is more often than not plagued with bloatware etc.

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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

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delinquent wrote:The Axon 7 looked incredibly promising, as do the recent Nokia models. Not as superbly expensive as other phones, too, and all officially supported by LineageOS.
Hey, this is great news, thanks! Hopefully I'll buy a new phone this year and join the LineageOS crew. :D

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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by Lucifer »

I didn't read everything, lots of detailed stuff I'm not interested in. :)

@sinewav: Developing for Android isn't so bad, if you get AIDE (on your android device) and have a keyboard, and presumably your device is a decent-sized tablet. There's also a Python interpreter that comes with an IDE and uses Kivy for the GUI. Speaking of whiches, you *can* develop for your desktop with Kivy and python, and when it's time to build for Android, well, you still have the standard Android nightmare, but you end up using Jython to compile your app to Java and it'll run fine. I haven't been able to sync a codebase between my tablet using QPython and my desktop using Linux, though, unfortunately. As a result, I've only written a Hello, World app. :/

About ReactOS: To put it in historical perspective, Linux was developed when windowing operating systems were still extremely primitive, and GNU had a set of tools that was quite mature and that every UNIX admin was already using in place of the stuff that shipped with whatever UNIX they had. Sun had even started bundling the GNU tools with their stuff. So Linux got to develop both as a kernel and as an operating system during the 90s. ReactOS, on the other hand, started development after Windows was already a mature operating system. Simply put, they're still playing catch-up, whereas at this same point in development, Linux-based operating systems had already become functionally competitive with Windows and UNIX and had already started displacing UNIX servers. But, if you're just going to run free software, there's no compelling reason to even be interested in ReactOS. If you're interested in developing for Windows but don't want to run Microsoft operating systems, then ReactOS is a good thing to watch for, whenever they get a production version ready to go.

About GNU: I'd be careful trash-talking GCC, since somewhere around 70% of the world runs on apps built by it. I think even Apple is building all their stuff with GCC, but I could be wrong about that one.

About *BSD: They all still suck, sorry-not-sorry. :)
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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by sinewav »

Lucifer wrote:But, if you're just going to run free software, there's no compelling reason to even be interested in ReactOS.
I think you need to be careful of the word "free." A large number of open source projects are shit compared to some free, closed source ones. For example, Linux does not have a good audio editor (sorry Audacity fans, it sucks). I use Wavosaur in WINE. This closed source, free Windows binary runs circles around every open source alternative. Here's another closed, free, Win binary: NAPS2 (scanning software) blows the shit out of XSane on Linux. I honestly think ReactOS can be a viable alternative for both Windows and Linux — if a user's needs are simple enough. God knows a lot people just use Android for everything, so I don't see how ReactOS should be at a disadvantage once it becomes a little more stable.

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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by aP|Nelg »

sinewav wrote:
Lucifer wrote:But, if you're just going to run free software, there's no compelling reason to even be interested in ReactOS.
I think you need to be careful of the word "free." A large number of open source projects are shit compared to some free, closed source ones. For example, Linux does not have a good audio editor (sorry Audacity fans, it sucks). I use Wavosaur in WINE. This closed source, free Windows binary runs circles around every open source alternative. Here's another closed, free, Win binary: NAPS2 (scanning software) blows the shit out of XSane on Linux.
In this case of free software, it's referred to freedom... not price.

That aside, do you like NAPS2 because of its simplicity? Have you tried Skanlite? Also, Kwave is an audacity alternative... Both should be available in a Distro Near You(tm)
sinewav wrote:I honestly think ReactOS can be a viable alternative for both Windows and Linux — if a user's needs are simple enough. God knows a lot people just use Android for everything, so I don't see how ReactOS should be at a disadvantage once it becomes a little more stable.
ReactOS is a Windows environment, not an Android environment. If you want an Android environment on your computer, there is something called Android-x86. There is also a project called Anbox which allows you to run Android applications on a linux distro...although it's not the most stable as of now.

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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by Lucifer »

aP|Nelg wrote:
sinewav wrote:
Lucifer wrote:But, if you're just going to run free software, there's no compelling reason to even be interested in ReactOS.
I think you need to be careful of the word "free." A large number of open source projects are shit compared to some free, closed source ones. For example, Linux does not have a good audio editor (sorry Audacity fans, it sucks). I use Wavosaur in WINE. This closed source, free Windows binary runs circles around every open source alternative. Here's another closed, free, Win binary: NAPS2 (scanning software) blows the shit out of XSane on Linux.
In this case of free software, it's referred to freedom... not price.
Yeah, my point was that if you want to run free (open source) software exclusively, just run Linux. ReactOS's primary appeal is being binary compatible with Windows, not just executables, but drivers and crap as well. So you run a free (as in freedom) operating system just to run open source software? Sounds kind of silly, to me. :)

I'm interested in ReactOS to test Windows versions of software so I don't have to buy a Windows license. :)
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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by sinewav »

aP|Nelg wrote:Have you tried Skanlite? Also, Kwave is an audacity alternative... Both should be available in a Distro Near You(tm)...
ReactOS is a Windows environment, not an Android environment. If you want an Android environment on your computer, there is something called Android-x86. There is also a project called Anbox which allows you to run Android applications on a linux distro...although it's not the most stable as of now.
I hadn't heard of Skanlite or Kwave, but I also avoid KDE at all costs. Too resource heavy for my 10 year old machine. Kwave is likely too simple for my needs. EDIT: Skanlite it waaaay too "lite" for my purposes.

My point about ReactOS was that people already use Android as an alternative to Windows, so I don't see how using React would be much different. The general public doesn't think too much about operating systems, they just want to get stuff done. I'll keep an eye out for Android on the desktop, though I can't see a use for it right now.
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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by Lucifer »

sinewav wrote: My point about ReactOS was that people already use Android as an alternative to Windows, so I don't see how using React would be much different. The general public doesn't think too much about operating systems, they just want to get stuff done. I'll keep an eye out for Android on the desktop, though I can't see a use for it right now.
You can use Android without all the Google crap.

https://fsfe.org/campaigns/android/liberate.en.html
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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

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Lucifer wrote:You can use Android without all the Google crap.

https://fsfe.org/campaigns/android/liberate.en.html
That's basically why we are talking about LineageOS. On my phone I've already disabled Google services and every Google app, and installed F-Droid. Now if I can just get Virgin to stop sending me advertisements...

I'm thinking about buying a 2nd Gen Moto X to install LineageOs. I get three paychecks this month, so this might be the time.ref=sr_1_11?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1520040704&sr=1-11&refinements=p_89%3AMotorola%2Cp_n_condition-type%3A6503240011%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_four_browse-bin%3A6787346011&th=1

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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by Lucifer »

What I really want is for Android to get POSIX certified so that all of the POSIX apps available already will run on it. But for that to happen, Google has to replace their stupid C library with a functional one, like uClibc or glibc. If they were to actually do that, then I'd be able to use my tablet to replace my laptop. I'd probably have to get a mouse for the X11 apps, but Android already supports a mouse, and X11 apps could be written to accommodate touch events. (Yes, I realize that X11 is deprecated and distributions are already switching to Wayland or somesuch)
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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by delinquent »

sinewav wrote:2nd Gen Moto X
I wouldn't if I were you. Seemingly most of these come from AT&T or T-Mobile, so you'll be facing exactly the same problem re: bootloader unlocking.

The Axon 7 Mini retails at a fairly similar price point, and whilst it's no speed demon, that sort of hardware should play very nicely with Lineage for at least a good three or four years, perhaps more.

Or, you might like the LG G3 which I have - but I suggest you try to get a D855 model rather than a D850 or D851. The latter models come from AT&T and T-Mobile respectively, but allegedly their bootloaders can be unlocked with some tools from XDA. They are a bit fiddly though, and finding the right stock firmware (a necessary step with this model, unfortunately) can be a bit of a hassle.

In general, unless you plan to stick with the stock offering, I would avoid Motorola at the moment. They're rather guilty of appeasing carriers to appalling lengths, much like Sony were back in the day.
Lucifer wrote:What I really want is for Android to get POSIX certified
That would be pretty nice, actually. I suppose what really needs to happen is the optimisation of glibc, or perhaps an implementation of glibc in the same optimisation spirit as bionic, but without the weird GPL restrictions. Although, to a degree, this might deter future development, so rock/hard place?

As with pthread modifications, I suppose one might be able to build an adaptation of bionic that adds pthread_atfork(), but cancellation and pthread_once() as they exist in the bionic library might, in theory, be workable. Some form of additional compatibility layer would have been my immediate idea, but I really have no idea what impact that would have on runtime performance (or even if it's possible).

I wonder what using libcrystax is like, though? According to the website it offers quite a lot of complete concepts, where bionic does not.

But, to be brutally honest, I'm talking partly out of my backside. I know very little about C and C++ (or their objective counterparts), so some of that's just guesswork.

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Re: Operating systems and other software discussion

Post by Monkey »

@Lucifer
Good to have you back and it's nice to see you fanning the flames of this wonderful flame war.
Lucifer wrote:About GNU: I'd be careful trash-talking GCC, since somewhere around 70% of the world runs on apps built by it. I think even Apple is building all their stuff with GCC, but I could be wrong about that one.
You are wrong about that one. Apple (and anyone else who is sane) uses LLVM/Clang. GNU and GCC suck ass and are dying, thank goodness. Bye bye Stallman.
Lucifer wrote:ReactOS blah blah, About *BSD: They all still suck, sorry-not-sorry.
Linux is such a mess that it has no future on the desktop for the masses. ReactOS aims to take what is good from Windows and make a good open source OS from it. You don't have to use proprietory drivers or software on ReactOS but you can if you want to. Don't get me wrong though, I'll still be using OpenBSD. :)
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