US Election 2016

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Lucifer
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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Lucifer » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:10 am

Z-Man wrote:LGBT rights and environmental protection certainly won't progress nationwide under him. But hey, you still have state legislation that can try to pick up the slack.
While I agree that things may not be as bad as they seem right now (although reading an article about how Bannon of Breitbart fame might be named the White House Chief of Staff didn't help much), it's important to remember that 31 state governments are in majority control of the Republicans, and they'll be looking to their Republican President for leadership.

The Democrats, as an opposition party, are at the weakest point they've ever been. The infighting for the DNC chair has already started, and it's looking like it may very well be Howard Dean vs Bernie Sanders.

Sinewav and I were talking in irc last night about an idea I had. I'm still sitting on it, thinking about it, making sure I don't jump in high energy and fizzle once again, but here's the idea:

We form an Independent Party that has no candidates and no platform. Instead, we maintain a database of independents who vote, as well as independents who don't vote because they're not excited about the candidates. We keep demographic data on them, their individual positions on various issues, what issues they care about (even if they're not in the news), etc. We make aggregate reports from this information available to the two major parties to use when working out their policies and setting up their candidates. Basically, we give each of them a roadmap as to how they can win over independent voters. Had Hillary had such a roadmap, maybe she could have turned out more voters?

There's a lot more to the idea, but that's the core part of it. The Independent Party would stay true to its name and be completely non-partisan, offering no candidates and no platform and no internal unity of its members other than their dedication to vote for candidates they like. The Party itself would represent all of its members to the major political parties and the public as a whole.

We'd keep members informed on what their politicians are doing/saying, what the various branches of government are up to (at least federal and state levels, but with enough people actively participating we could go down to county and city levels as well), etc. We'd encourage them to network with each other (maybe occasionally throwing actual parties to get people together), learn more about each other, and vote vote vote. Also, vote in the primaries (registering for the party whose primary you want to vote in as needed), make your voice heard. Maybe one side is clearly favoring a candidate you like, so you vote in the other side's primary for the candidate they have that you like the most in the hope of seeing those two go at it in the general election.

There are enough independent voters to influence the election, it's just that nobody's listening to us. Well, Bernie and Trump both did, and we saw how that went.
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Z-Man
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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Z-Man » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:32 pm

Lucifer wrote:Bannon of Breitbart fame might be named the White House Chief of Staff didn't help much)
Oh right, **** that guy. Is that his final pick, though, or pre-election information? Anything pre-election I'd take with a grain of salt.

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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Lucifer » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:43 am

Z-Man wrote:
Lucifer wrote:Bannon of Breitbart fame might be named the White House Chief of Staff didn't help much)
Oh right, **** that guy. Is that his final pick, though, or pre-election information? Anything pre-election I'd take with a grain of salt.
Haven't checked the news today, so last I heard he was at least on the short list, along with Kellyanne Conway (standard fare for the campaign manager to become the Chief of Staff after winning the election).
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Re: US Election 2016

Post by kyle » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:58 pm

You know they are working on a new show, "The Apprentice: Oval Office", where contestants compete for a cabinet position.
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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Z-Man » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:15 am

If you're in Germany reading this today, why are you checking pointless bumps of old threads on silly forums? Go vote!
Just please not for the openly xenophobic party that, as I found out the other day only because everyone is focussed on the other stuff, is also climate science denialist and wants to build MORE coal power plants? If you want to protest a political system you don't think is working, just give an invalid vote, drawing frownies in the circles of everyone you especially don't like?

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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Word » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:42 am

I already voted last week, my second vote went to DIE PARTEI. People keep saying a vote for them is like a vote for the AfD, a notion which I consider utter nonsense. What is there to like about the other parties if you're from the social sciences or humanities? For years, they have destroyed our jobs and that of others. If you read their party programs, it becomes clear that their education plans only seeks to improve conditions for "MINT"-subjects (mathematics, IT, natural sciences and tech). You'll also notice that they have no explicit standpoint on any question that is currently discussed in the humanities. The only party that does happens to be the AfD, which wants to strengthen museums and the cultural heritage sector, but, like you'd expect from a populist right-wing party, only to promote their twisted image of the past (as Z-Man noted, there are also some creationists among their ranks, but there are also many Holocaust deniers who want to enforce that denial in museums).
Given that so many members of DIE PARTEI have a background in social sciences and the humanities themselves, I have an earnest hope that they will make wiser decisions than most established parties and not suck up to the automobile and fossil fuel industry like virtually all other parties.

A vote for a small party is a vote for a small party, not for the AfD.

BTW, German users, if you don't know this site yet, you should check it out: https://www.deinwal.de
It's way better than the Wahl-O-Mat as it shows you the actual laws that have passed during the last administration's tenure, and how the parliament voted, and how it compares to your opinion. The Wahl-O-Mat just compares your opinion and the campaign promises.

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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Z-Man » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:10 pm

Word wrote:as Z-Man noted, there are also some creationists among their ranks
Hah, that's actually news to me.
Word wrote:A vote for a small party is a vote for a small party, not for the AfD.
Indeed. But, erm, does DIE PARTEI actually have an agenda for the case they actually make the cut one day? Don't get me wrong, they're a fine choice for protest votes, but I only ever see them act like the Silly Party. Oh, and the thing where they hijacked a bunch of AfD Facebook groups. That was neat, props to them.

Oh well. If it were for MY particular part of town, the AfD would not have entered parliament by a long shot.
OTOH, the CDU would have an absolute majority of seats. Now, I do actually kind of like Angela Merkel, I think she handled the various crises and situations thrown at her rather well. With the exception of the Euro debt crisis, where I think that Portugal by now has proved sufficiently that rigidly saving all the money is not necessarily the best way out of such a crisis. But the rest of the bunch? Urgh. Imbeciles.
Soo, I'm mildly optimistic. Looks like CDU/CSU, Liberals and Greens are forced to cooperate. Economically, CDU+Liberals has been all right in the past, let the Greens do their environmental thing (which I voted for them for), and Liberals and Greens have overlap on civil liberties. Last time I checked, they both were against mass surveillance and for more privacy protection. I see a slim potential for greatness, even. I'd surely enjoy watching Hofreiter and Lindner vehemently suppressing the urge to go for each other's throat for four years.

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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Word » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:36 am

DIE PARTEI actually have an agenda for the case they actually make the cut one day? Don't get me wrong, they're a fine choice for protest votes, but I only ever see them act like the Silly Party.
A lot of this is wishful thinking of course, but the AfD stunt, Sonneborn's speeches in the EU parliament or other PARTEI-affiliated outlets/people (like Titanic, Leo Fischer or Nico Semsrott) indicate for me they'd easily be able to hold their own, should they get the chance. For me, their satire and its targets show what their true opinions are like.
Now, I do actually kind of like Angela Merkel, I think she handled the various crises and situations thrown at her rather well. With the exception of the Euro debt crisis, where I think that Portugal by now has proved sufficiently that rigidly saving all the money is not necessarily the best way out of such a crisis. But the rest of the bunch? Urgh. Imbeciles.
Well, I don't hate her and she's a talented politician, but I don't like the direction our society, education, foreign relations, political system, the media, the ecology and economy are moving toward because of her and other, less important factors. There's so much to criticize in-depth, and still I'm not actually sure any other German top politician would do a much better job. I'd already be happy if the fossil fuel and anti-climate-science lobby is put in its place.

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Re: US Election 2016

Post by delinquent » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:28 pm

I can't really comment on the election, but Angela Merkel seems a bit power drunk when it comes to foreign relations at the moment. She made a lot of people in the UK very angry by making a comment about "punishing" the UK if we voted to leave the EU, and I heard more than one person talking about deliberately voting to leave because of this alone (stupid decision, but angry people are angry people). There was also some contention about her seemingly giving orders to member states regarding the Syrian refugee crisis. Germany is certainly a bit of a powerhouse in the EU, but I worry that not all of the candidates have the restraint required to handle such a position.

Now, back to worrying about riots...

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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Lucifer » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:12 am

Like it or not, but Angela Merkel is probably the only foreign power (to the USA) that can actually put Trump in check, and she needs to do it. She needs y'all's support, with appropriate checks and balances, of course.

I didn't notice German elections happening mostly because of personal crap going on (again! :( ), so, uhhh, don't elect Marine Le Pen? ;)
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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Z-Man » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:14 pm

Word wrote:Well, I don't hate her and she's a talented politician, but I don't like the direction our society, education, foreign relations, political system, the media, the ecology and economy are moving toward because of her and other, less important factors. There's so much to criticize in-depth, and still I'm not actually sure any other German top politician would do a much better job. I'd already be happy if the fossil fuel and anti-climate-science lobby is put in its place.
Oh, yeah, yeah. She's definitely still a conservative and I can't see myself voting for her party. I especially do not like their course in the inner security real with their push for more surveillance (where, of course, the AfD would be a million times worse). But as a statesperson? She's in the top league for me, going by the simple criterion of how many times I facepalmed or at least gently shook my head whenever I read about them.
delinquent wrote:I can't really comment on the election, but Angela Merkel seems a bit power drunk when it comes to foreign relations at the moment. She made a lot of people in the UK very angry by making a comment about "punishing" the UK if we voted to leave the EU,
Huh, that sounds unlike her, do you have a source? She obviously has stated her conditions and the most prominent would be that if the UK wants to have open access to the EU market, they also need to accept migration from the EU, and that the UK has to pay their outstanding contractual obligations (I haven't found a source where she says it, but it's the EUs position anyway). And I suppose there is a short path from "pay your bills" over "pay the price" to "you'll be punished", especially when it comes to writing catchy headlines.

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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Word » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:26 am

But as a statesperson? She's in the top league for me, going by the simple criterion of how many times I facepalmed or at least gently shook my head whenever I read about them.
Yes, same here. I bet there are many people who consider themselves leftist, but voted for her nonetheless, and experienced a cognitive dissonance as a result...I also think her neoliberal politics and that of her precedessors are often directly responsible for the problems we are now facing, which she can now solve to present herself as the crisis-remedy. In retrospect, the one good thing Schröder did was not sending troops to Iraq, but that's pretty much it, at least in my opinion.

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Re: US Election 2016

Post by delinquent » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:05 pm

Z-Man wrote:Huh, that sounds unlike her, do you have a source? She obviously has stated her conditions and the most prominent would be that if the UK wants to have open access to the EU market, they also need to accept migration from the EU, and that the UK has to pay their outstanding contractual obligations (I haven't found a source where she says it, but it's the EUs position anyway). And I suppose there is a short path from "pay your bills" over "pay the price" to "you'll be punished", especially when it comes to writing catchy headlines.
It actually might be a warped headline, the only mention of it I can find is through the BBC... which unfortunately is appearing very biased as of late.

-there was an off topic rant about the referendum to go here, but I decided against it.

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