Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

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Light
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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Light »

Word wrote:
Okay, so just because there are more unreported cases (which wouldn't have had anything to do with what I was talking about), that makes the false reports meaningless? And the fact that I can see both sides makes me ignorant?
That's not what he said (or implied, but it was painfully obvious...). There are no "two sides", fake reports are a completely different subject, and certainly difficult to disprove. Even if we take that into account you'd be wrong: if the number of actual reports and the estimated cases wasn't as big as it is, these few fake cases would probably be investigated more thorough, since the overall probability of the accused man's guilt would sink. Then again, you claim even the actual rates include a significant amount of fake accusations ("people think there's such a high percentage...", although Phytotron already debunked that - and then you say that you don't think most reported cases were fake - so what difference does it make if you just rely on what people supposedly think and ignore all the statistics) and the debate would have to end here, because I can't nail your jelly to a wall. Everything else in your post has already been addressed.
You're just not getting what I'm trying to get through ..

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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Z-Man »

I hope so! To me, what you wrote in the previous post sounds to me like
1. You are repeating the "That's the way it is, I don't see why it should/how it can be changed, meh" talk
2. You are putting the lion's share of the blame for the inflated perception of fake rape reports on the fake reports themselves instead of, you know, those doing the inflating (which would be doubly regrettable because if you were to devise countermeasures based on that premise, you'd certainly come to the conclusion that fake reports need punishment, which would reduce the number of actual reports.)
Care to clarify? Probably better use less words, not more.

Phytotron, sinewav: surely you can get by without name calling here?
Also, the "If you're not with us, you're against us" rhetoric? Leave it at home. I'm certainly not alone with my gut reaction of "Oh? Well, then I guess I am against you, because we definitely won't agree on everything." Also, people are allowed to select the issues they care about enough to act.

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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Light »

Z-Man wrote:I hope so! To me, what you wrote in the previous post sounds to me like
1. You are repeating the "That's the way it is, I don't see why it should/how it can be changed, meh" talk
2. You are putting the lion's share of the blame for the inflated perception of fake rape reports on the fake reports themselves instead of, you know, those doing the inflating (which would be doubly regrettable because if you were to devise countermeasures based on that premise, you'd certainly come to the conclusion that fake reports need punishment, which would reduce the number of actual reports.)
Care to clarify? Probably better use less words, not more.
For #1. If I sounded earlier like I didn't see why things should change, that's not it. I don't see how it could be changed, not without getting support from someone with a lot more power. But, we seem to have gotten away from that topic from earlier.

For this, again I think it does need to change. I didn't mean to come off as saying a majority are fake, or anything of the sort. It's just that fake reports seem to be shown more publically, and get more attention. Maybe it's to prevent the victim from being shown public or whatever, but nobody seems to pay as much attention to it in comparison.

Yes, I said "a lot" of fake reports, but again, not talking about being a majority of reports in general, but that they're more common than they should be. As for rape itself, I'm aware of a few statistics, which are extremely surprising to learn, like college rape percentages. It's pretty sickening. I don't know what the overall percentages are, but I may look into that.

On #2, I'm not sure I understnad you completely. And when it comes to punishment for fake reports, I'm not certain how well that could be done. You wouldn't want to push people away more from reporting it, because they think it will result in being fake, and them getting punished. People who fall victim to stuff like that often seem to break down and believe what they're told by the person who harmed them.

Another thing that people tend to make light of by joking and whatnot, is male rape. Somehow, people have come to conclusions like they can't be raped because they can control everything, or something like that, which is about as stupid as the people that say women can avoid getting pregnant if they're raped by shutting it down. There's also multiple ways assaults can happen, and it comes from both men and women. It's not something that only happens to women. I think it's like 10% for adult males, and 20% for children (out of all), so yes, I can see most are women, but that still leaves quite a bit that many people shrug off.

Not saying you guys do, but I think everything kind of adds to the problem. From what was said, I'm quite sure that we agree on most of the main points. When I was going against what was being said earlier, on some it was just the reasoning, not the actual point. I guess it may have helped if I made that more clear. Idk ..

And as far as the term "rape" being used in-game. I haven't encountered it much in AA before this topic came up .. I have a feeling it's working against the whole point. Twice since this topic came up, and maybe twice in the past 5 years before it.

Sorry, I can't seem to do less words. And to those posting a bunch of links, I don't read it all, though I do skim through a bit, because I'm dyslexic and it's quite time consuming to sit and read a bunch of pages. If you think I disagree with you on something, please just point it out, and maybe ask for clarification, because a lot of what was being argued about seemed to be pointing to extremes, and completely missing the point.

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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by sinewav »

Light wrote:For #1. If I sounded earlier like I didn't see why things should change, that's not it. I don't see how it could be changed, not without getting support from someone with a lot more power.
You + We are the "someone with a lot more power" and together we make the change. The only thing you need to do is make minimal effort towards ending rape jokes and not take the neutral/helpless position. Power in numbers toward positivity.

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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Light »

sinewav wrote:You + We are the "someone with a lot more power" and together we make the change. The only thing you need to do is make minimal effort towards ending rape jokes and not take the neutral/helpless position. Power in numbers toward positivity.
I do stop what I can when it comes to jokes about things like race and sexual assault .. can't really think of others off the top of my head, but obvious when it's out of line. I just don't feel like those of us who do stop it from happening when we can are enough. Still way outnumbered, and not enough people seem to care.

Maybe I was wrong about that though. Maybe many people care, but are afraid to stand out. If that's the case, then it would be a goal I see more in reach, as more people begin to stand against it, they wouldn't feel so out of place doing so. I'm just not sure they do.

You would think they would, because it doesn't fly in real life, but I guess when nobody is able to see who you are, people feel the ability to be dicks.

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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Lucifer »

Light wrote:
sinewav wrote:You + We are the "someone with a lot more power" and together we make the change. The only thing you need to do is make minimal effort towards ending rape jokes and not take the neutral/helpless position. Power in numbers toward positivity.
I do stop what I can when it comes to jokes about things like race and sexual assault .. can't really think of others off the top of my head, but obvious when it's out of line. I just don't feel like those of us who do stop it from happening when we can are enough. Still way outnumbered, and not enough people seem to care.
Do you ever stand with your friends in some public place and comment to each other about various people going by about whether or not you'd have sex with that person?
Maybe I was wrong about that though. Maybe many people care, but are afraid to stand out. If that's the case, then it would be a goal I see more in reach, as more people begin to stand against it, they wouldn't feel so out of place doing so. I'm just not sure they do.
Maybe there are too many people claiming the situation is hopeless and that some higher power needs to get involved. Maybe if you'd just shut the **** up, you'd do more to help than any word you can say.

On the subject of punishing fake rape reports:

NEVER PUNISH FAKE RAPE REPORTS

Is that simple enough for anybody who wants to know? Phyto quoted a 1.6% percent number for fake reports. That's an acceptable loss at this time.
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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Light »

Lucifer wrote:Do you ever stand with your friends in some public place and comment to each other about various people going by about whether or not you'd have sex with that person?
No.
Lucifer wrote:On the subject of punishing fake rape reports:

NEVER PUNISH FAKE RAPE REPORTS

Is that simple enough for anybody who wants to know? Phyto quoted a 1.6% percent number for fake reports. That's an acceptable loss at this time.
Why get so mad sounding, then agree?
Lucifer wrote:Maybe there are too many people claiming the situation is hopeless and that some higher power needs to get involved. Maybe if you'd just shut the **** up, you'd do more to help than any word you can say.
I didn't say we shouldn't try. I just said that I don't think it's enough. Is that really something to get so worked up over, on a "maybe this is why .."?

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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Lucifer »

Light wrote:
Lucifer wrote:Maybe there are too many people claiming the situation is hopeless and that some higher power needs to get involved. Maybe if you'd just shut the **** up, you'd do more to help than any word you can say.
I didn't say we shouldn't try. I just said that I don't think it's enough. Is that really something to get so worked up over, on a "maybe this is why .."?
You realize that if we were in person, I'd have slapped you while I said that, and you'd have looked at me angrily at first, then we would've laughed together, and you would have finally understood this entire thread?

Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it. And it still didn't get through. Definitely calls for a slap. Are you anywhere near Austin, TX, by any chance?
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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Light »

Lucifer wrote:You realize that if we were in person, I'd have slapped you while I said that, and you'd have looked at me angrily at first, then we would've laughed together, and you would have finally understood this entire thread?
Not quite sure if this is a good or bad thing. lol
Lucifer wrote:Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it. And it still didn't get through. Definitely calls for a slap. Are you anywhere near Austin, TX, by any chance?
I'll come for that slap eventually. I wanna go to Austin to see The Atheist Experience and meet the cast. :D Best public access show in all of US.

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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Lucifer »

Light wrote:
Lucifer wrote:Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it. And it still didn't get through. Definitely calls for a slap. Are you anywhere near Austin, TX, by any chance?
I'll come for that slap eventually. I wanna go to Austin to see The Atheist Experience and meet the cast. :D Best public access show in all of US.
My wife is friends with Matt Dillahunty. :) She used to play pool with him.
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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Light »

Lucifer wrote:My wife is friends with Matt Dillahunty. :) She used to play pool with him.
That's just not fair .. lol Did she know him back in his religious days?

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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Lucifer »

Light wrote:
Lucifer wrote:My wife is friends with Matt Dillahunty. :) She used to play pool with him.
That's just not fair .. lol Did she know him back in his religious days?
She says no.
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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by Light »

Lucifer wrote:She says no.
Was always curious how much he changed from it. I know publicly an atheist now, but I mean more as a person.

We're going off topic. :X I'm not sure it's a bad thing though. lol

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Re: Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

Post by XD|VIPer »

What kind of argument is this anyways?
Lucifer wrote:Definitely calls for a slap. Are you anywhere near Austin, TX, by any chance?
Do it this way: /admin slap light 400

Also:
Light wrote:I do stop what I can when it comes to jokes about things like race and sexual assault
Why didn't you stop this then:
Light wrote:<unwilling sexual intercourse>

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