Apology

[Ratchet]

Seriously, I didn't take the time to read every single post. However, I noticed Sine is pretty persistent about not praising Elmo, while everyone else is. I also saw Concord asked why gender mattered.

Bottom line is, it doesn't. People on these forums, (yes, all of you, and me sometimes) like to exaggerate things. And make them much, much larger than they should be. This SHOULD have consisted of: "Elmo: I'm really a guy..." "Everyone else: Oh, who cares. It's just tron.... does it matter?"

Really though, why the hell does it matter? Quit caring, quit saying he has balls. Quit sucking each other off. Get real.

[Mkay1]

The reality of this forums is people have both a lack of character, morals, and conscience. That isn't very culturally acceptable like you make it sound.

[sinewav]

People on these forums, (yes, all of you, and me sometimes) like to exaggerate things. And make them much, much larger than they should be. This SHOULD have consisted of: "Elmo: I'm really a guy..." "Everyone else: Oh, who cares. It's just tron.... does it matter?"

If you shouldn't feel bad about lying to a group of people over many, many months, what the hell should you feel bad about?

Also, here are some failed rationalizations that don't work: It's just a game. It's the Internet. No one got hurt.

Sorry, I don't think it's Ok to lie under any circumstances. And I don't think people should be made to feel like it's Ok to do so. For those who think otherwise, let me explain it this way: You can surround yourself with people who lie and make you feel good if you lie, but where will you be when you need an honest opinion?

The reality of this forums is people have both a lack of character, morals, and conscience. That isn't very culturally acceptable like you make it sound.

Plus One.

[TaZ]

... but it took some balls for u to come out. Well done

I'm not sure why you are all praising someone who lied repeatedly and didn't have the spine to confess sooner. If your gf/bf were cheating on you for months, then was like "oh, I'm sorry, I've been cheating" you probably wouldn't praise them for their honesty. Or if you did, you would still dump them because that's what they deserve. You might think this is an extreme example but your praise of this person is utterly stupid. He is not trustworthy. He doesn't deserve a "well done."

You have consistently trolled in this thread. As a much older adult, I guess I would expect you to have some respect for someone who can man up and admit to their own lies. You instantly label him as untrustworthy without even really knowing him. Elmo feels relieved now that he's got it in the open. Again, you have a right to your own opinion. From what I've seen before, you will continue to be stubborn and justify why any praise given to him is stupid.

[sinewav]

LOL! Taz u r so deep and insightful and caring. I guess that's your reputation. I did not know. I'll stop "trolling" even though what I'm doing isn't trolling. An opinion you don't like isn't a "troll," it's simply an opinion.

A real man wouldn't lie in the first place (let alone perpetuate it for months). Then again, most of you are kids so I guess you've got a lot to learn. And lying to someone is the easiest and most direct way to prove untrustworthiness. Honesty is integral to trust. I'm sorry you've never experienced it.

[PokeMaster]

I think I'll chime in just because I have a view on the matter of guilt. On one side, you have sine advocating for somebody who lies to feel guilty for doing so, which I think is a completely valid point as it is important for lying in a society to be looked down upon. The other side, which sounds like a good number of people here support, want Elmo not to sweat it, not to feel guilty, and just to move on from it as if it were no big deal at all. This is also good, because it promotes the happiness of an individual. But the way I see it, the two sides of argument are simply two halves of a whole. Any person who breaks from morality should feel guilty of doing so, but also rise from that guilt as a better person. Guilt is a powerful emotion that forces us to reflect, to look at our actions from a different perspective, and to acknowledge our wrong. Guilt motivates improvement of character, and with that improvement of character may come forgiveness, the other half which so many are arguing for. It would be a waste to live the rest of one's life in guilt and regret of our actions, but the proper amount of guilt can go a long way into making us better people and earning that ease of mind.

I'm not trying to suggest what would be right or wrong for Elmo to do—that's up to him and I don't really care how he chooses to reflect upon his actions, if at all. I just wanted to discuss the concept of guilt and share my view on it.

[Titanoboa]

Good post pwak, I couldn't have written it better (really).

Elmo seems to be feeling a lot of guilt about lying about his gender, so I felt that the community shouldn't make it worse, but rather support Elmo now that he's apologized. Sine's right that we shouldn't be praising him for lying, but we should at least accept the apology.

[Word]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fouuf7CzdbY

Yeah, I just found that when getting the youtube link


Forgiveness is OK, but fraud is fraud, as far as I can say Elmo isn't some persecuted victim who had to use a false identity to protect his or someone else's life and such a confession serves only one purpose, you don't need to maintain the image you've build up. It's the same kind of laziness that seemed to make him lie in the first place. It's also wrong that someone who pretended to be someone else to get more respect is suddenly respected for his admission to have done just that - both is 'stupid but comfortable'.
Didn't you see Breivik? Do you think he earns more respect because 'he had the balls' to admit that he killed 77 people on a lone island (he said it was 'cruel but necessary')?

[Mecca]

And lying to someone is the easiest and most direct way to prove untrustworthiness.

Elmo lied. He was untrustworthy.

Now Elmo is telling the truth. He is trustworthy.


Also, it's not like it wasn't obvious in the first place.

Real girls on the internet hardly ever have a problem talking on TS/Vent.

Liz
Breezy
Oddeuro
Destiny
Dubstep/Vipe/Shrooms/Maya

All of them have had no problem talking.

Caligurl (who we all found out was fake)
Elmo (who we all found out was fake)
Saffia (who we all found out was fake)

ALL put up a fuss when they need to get on TS/Vent.

It's an extremely common theme.

Over half a decade on Runescape, get ducked.

[MaZuffeR]

Noone reverse image search the pictures she posted on unknown forums? Or were they pictures that returned no results?(fb pictures, MySpace, et) that's how I found out that lanfear was a boy..no one had her Facebook either?

The pictures don't return any results.


TS/Vent/Mumble don't really prove anything because MorphVOX.

[Kijutsu]

better than disappearing and then reappearing secretly with a new name...

we're talking to you, uNk.0ma

[Word]

I'm male and have a problem to get on TS and the likes because I find it annoying and don't really want to configure my microphone every time/turn off the music (stupid sound chips in Acer laptops).

Now Elmo is telling the truth. He is trustworthy.

If someone throws your mother off a bridge for no reason and admits it 20 years later ("sorry!"), I'd like to see you telling him he's one trustworthy guy.

Also, don't forget Slov (aka Mako-X).

[Kijutsu]

any guy who pretends to be a girl on the internet is a creep, even posting pictures to match the persona.. and acting all girly, calling yourself elmo? like, lol

i'm embarrassed for you

[sinewav]

Also, it's not like it wasn't obvious in the first place.

Totally, and my first post in this reads like "you're an idiot. now what are you going to do?" I only fired up my morality gun because a few people were a little too comfortable with someone lying like that -- which as Kijutsu said is very, very creepy.

Caligurl (who we all found out was fake)

Wasn't there 2 caligurl's at the same time with slightly different spellings? I thought one was an actual chick who only played for a couple months, intermittently, and who generally sucked at the game. Probably the same person, right? I wasn't paying too much attention of course because #1 they sucked and #2 no girls in Tron.

[Concord]

I think it might be more that some people, myself included, approach everything on the internet with a built in sense of distrust and periodically and regularly remind themselves that people are not necessarily what they present themselves as, even when given no reason to continue these suspicions.