Apology

[delinquent]

Is this really still going on?

[compguygene]

I am just asking everybody to just ask themselves if this is a fight worth continuing.

Someday all of them will have a driving license and make decisions that will affect other lives, so yeah, it totally is.
As long as all of them think they ought to be treated with kid gloves while they themselves behave the opposite way, there's no point to pretend that what they're doing here is fine. Sure it's easy to say "stop this mess, you all shut up" but a chaotic discussion about this is better than none at all, which is making it look acceptable.

Oh, so what you are saying is that you have to continue this discussion to "teach them a lesson". Ok.

1. Most of them already have their driver's licences.
2. You really think that this way of talking is going to teach them this lesson?
3. They have been called out for your bad actions here, and so are you! You continue to prove the points they raise against you....
4. If you are saying they are trolls, then don't feed the trolls.

[Gonzap]

You continue to accuse me of not understanding what the whole discussion is about, but you're just proving me _you_ don't understand (or don't give a f*ck, both reasons are negative) what _we_ are talking about. I didn't even positioned myself on the previous discussion, I didn't even say if psy is wrong or right about his idea and I didn't give a damn about elmo's real identity before that. I posted because your friend here and you started to harrass psy for his idea like if it wasn't worth reading/a retard wrote it. That's what's wrong, and that's what we're complaining about right now. You hold no respect towards others, and I'm pretty sure the reason is we're not face to face. I strongly believe you don't react to some people's thoughts that way in real life, 'cause you'd probably never talk to that guy again.

What's funny is that you're trying to "educate" people showing them a mature discussion. Do you think it's mature to tell somebody into his face you're talking bullshit (babbling)? Is that mature? Or is it mature to say, "you're wrong, and the reasons are the following..". Before talking about maturity take some advice from yourself. It's all about a constant mistratment of people. And not only you and your friends, Liz is another example. She msitreats people and me personally call that out too.

But she's a sociopath and it's pointless to say anything to her. She'll never change. I'm starting to believe yours is a similar case, that you're a lost cause.

[Word]

1. Most of them already have their driver's licences.
2. You really think that this way of talking is going to teach them this lesson?
3. They have been called out for your bad actions here, and so are you! You continue to prove the points they raise against you....
4. If you are saying they are trolls, then don't feed the trolls.

1. Even worse
2. As I said, it's better than pretending that it's OK.
3. What points? The only point they have is that we're telling them to reply in an informed way, rather than just insulting whoever disagrees with them, gang up on someone or claim to be right yet providing no arguments, and just saying we're too offensive to debate with. Why would you want anyone to help celebrate their silliness? Imagine you're in a situation where you really need to get something done and you're confronted with one of these dolts who don't care how much sense you make, even hate you for the effort you put in your argumentation because they believe it's discriminating against them.
4. I don't want even more trolls here.

I posted because your friend here and you started to harrass psy for his idea like if it wasn't worth reading/a retard wrote it.

Again. I know why you posted. That's what is stupid about this. You posted to defend psy, regardless how dumb it is what he said. As you just said, you didn't care about anything he wrote earlier. We did.

Do you think it's mature to tell somebody into his face you're talking bullshit (babbling)?

In psy's case I think it was honest, and he did this before (where he probably didn't get criticized in such a harsh way at first). So he could have foreseen that. Frankly now I just think he wanted to provoke something like this. That psy now claims he feels insulted is a bad joke.

you hold no respect towards others, and I'm pretty sure the reason is we're not face to face. I strongly believe you don't react to some people's thoughts that way in real life, 'cause you'd probably never talk to that guy again.

I'm not sure if that was directed at Phytotron or me, but as for myself, I already made clear that I find it more respectful to be honest, to try to avoid misunderstandings and putting effort in your replies than telling the other side that it mustn't disagree. And a few hours ago I talked to a friend about German politicians and we have pretty different opinions there too (currently he's center-left, I'm center-right...), but both of us have arguments, can laugh together and play soccer from time to time. We rarely insulted one another (except if we were playing soccer). Sure, maybe such people are rare. About to get sociopathic? Far from it...

[þsy]

tl;dr Phyto, Word, and Sine (to varying degrees), we don't like the way you talk to us

'We', as far this thread is concerned, currently seems to be: ogopogo, liz, gonzap, aiphaton, insanity, delinquent, compguygene (?)

Whether my arguments were flawed, I didn't provide enough "proof" or "defend" my opinion adequately (lol), or whether I really do spew shit from my mouth, these numbers are starting to add up and speak for themselves. I know of other players who have been put off forum discussion because of your approach to discussion (or 'arguments'), and I'm sure there are others who haven't got round to posting themselves

So, the question is, how much of the community is it going to take before you get the message?

[Clutch]

I'm assuming everyone in this topic doesn't know about the "Foe" function on these forums?

[Word]

My God, this isn't some kind of werewolf game, psy. Want the forums to be full of crap like yours and nobody to disagree with you? Please continue.

[Gonzap]

F*ck this guy won't get it, I'm off the topic.

[sinewav]

I thought it would be fun to point something out. This thread was dead more than four months before psy bumped it almost two weeks ago. In that time my name has been brought up no less than 17 times yet I have made only 4 posts. Here they are:

Not that Word needs any help here (he's doing great all by himself), but I must say I'm impressed with the quality of his posts over the past year or two. He is definitely expanding his mind, solidifying his grasp of the English language, and getting better at verbalizing some complex ideas. His wits are sharper. That's not characteristic of a "no-lifer." I envy that, because when I was his age I was only hanging out with friends getting drunk.

Sexy Flanders?

No. b3n = b3n

Fixed that for you.

You guys are obsessed. It's not my fault I'm sexy!

[Phytotron]

Babbling + offensive pic

Goldblum.gif (692.93 KiB) Viewed 2454 times

Seems like about every three to six months we have to have one of these ridiculous Everybody Pile On and Analyze Phytotron Sessions, where all the frustrated kids get to air their overwrought, even imagined, grievances and have their little catharses. What's more obnoxious, we've been over all this manufactured controversy before, several times, but you all never learn. You're either dense or stubborn; either way it's no good. So let's once again try to summarily retread a few of the points we've covered several times in previous threads:

- Drop the entitlement complex. You are not entitled to not be disagreed with. Your opinions are not sacrosanct. If you make a statement, especially if you put forth an assertion, you need to be prepared to have someone criticize it. If you can't handle that, then don't bother; go self-segregate. And yes, this goes both ways, always has. If I make a statement, the content with which you disagree, if you think it's wrong or stupid, you're welcome to criticize it as well—just so long as you're criticising the actual idea, the actual content, and can back it up with an actual argument. Sadly, many of you seem incapable of that, and instead immediately resort to either maliciousness or whining. You see, we do say "you're wrong, and the reasons are the following...." You won't have it, though. On the other side, you're perfectly willing to insult others, entirely side-stepping any substantive argument.

- Drop the crude, trickled-down relativist/postmodernist complex. I will not accommodate it. All opinions and views are not equally valid. If you state any opinion, you are inherently indicating that you believe it is right and any conflicting opinion is wrong. You cannot castigate others by saying "you can't say I'm wrong when you don't know you're right!" because that's exactly what you yourself have just done. It makes no damn sense.

- There's that old adage: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to their own facts. What's so screwy about some of you, and the culture you mindlessly regurgitate, is that you flip that. You believe that everyone is entitled to their own facts, and at least claim that no one's opinion may be questioned. I say "claim" because in practice it's really only your own opinion, or those with whom you agree, that seem awarded this privilege. Not sure how you rationalize that contradiction other than being hypocritical narcissists, but it's not like rationality or consistency are big with your type. "Reason? Who needs that? I FEEL! I have so many feels!"

- Drop the persecution complex. There is a difference between being a legitimate victim of persecution or bullying—which you are not in any way—and just being a whiny, petty, spoiled, ineffectual brat who believes he's entitled to having his say without being disagreed with, and who childishly takes any challenge as a personal affront.

- You lot are consistently misusing the terms "bully" and "troll." Those terms have particular meanings, and you are totally misapplying them. I know that internet culture, and much of your generation more broadly, doesn't believe in things like facts or definitions or semantics, but those things do in fact matter. Reality matters. You are not describing reality when you attribute those terms to me.

- Worse, on the prior two points, many of you, once again, epitomize the pot calling the kettle black. Punching someone repeatedly then complaining that they hurt your hand. And on that you cannot rewrite history. Almost all of it is documented right here on this forum. I say almost, because that's excluding the actual trolling and flaming, even defacement of this forum, at my expense that was deleted by moderators or which took place with or in the game itself.

- Drop the inferiority complex. I do not use advanced vocabulary, and in fact have dumbed it down and been more casual with it since the last silly fuss made about it. And whatever "big words" I do use are not employed as a means to impress or lord myself over others. Words represent ideas, concepts, meaning. Vocabulary isn't primarily about how it makes you come off to others, but about the ability to comprehend and express ideas.

Let me repeat that: Vocabulary is not only about being better able to express ideas outwardly, not only about reading comprehension, but it is crucial in enhancing your very capacity to think about complex concepts. That's science, folks.

Furthermore, when you lack the vocabulary to first process and then express ideas, it often leads to frustration and lashing out, like babies who don't know how to express their anger and instead throw a fit. Remember what mommy said: "Use your words." Well, you're no longer 3 years old; time to get some better words.

Being all upset over your perception that the use of "big words" is some deliberate demonstration of personality or status is all on you, all in your head. It's your petty hang up; it's not something I've put on you. If you find it so frustrating that I use words you don't know, look them up. Learn something. THINK. Stop crying. If you can't handle that, then just bug off and stick to your insular little self-segregated places where everyone is just like you and you never have to deal with things you don't like.

And let me tell you something else. If you're going to be resentful toward everyone in this world who's a little bit smarter than you, you're not going to get very far in this life, and will have a hard time at it. You're going to become the type of person who worships the likes of Sarah Palin or thinks Jersey Shore is high class art. That's no way to go through life, son.

- Of course, all that said, I think you're also, in part, full of shit. You don't get angry at anyone else using decent vocabulary or being articulate. You just hate me and use this "stop being pretentious" (oops, big word) line of attack just for the sake of attack.

- Indeed, that final point is true for most if not all of your complaints and accusations against me. It's personal, not principled, something you've all demonstrated countless times over, and blatantly so right here in this thread.

- Your group is actually trying to gang up and run (bully?) me "and co." off of this forum as much as you claim I "and co." are trying to run off others. Indeed, you're being explicit about wanting to achieve that. Once more, blatant hypocrisy. The fact is, contrary to your absurd accusations, I have no desire to "rule" this forum. On the other hand, some of you have made it quite clear that you do in fact want to dominate this forum and turn it into your own cliquish little playground where you can in fact "bully" people with impunity. Admit it. You're simply resentful that you aren't getting your way. And back round we come to one of my initial points: All this manufactured controversy boils down to little more than juvenile internet tribalism.

- Did anyone get my Animal Farm reference when I mockingly said "all views are equal, especially mine!"?

- Psy has expressed some sort of affinity for the Occupy movement, but the irony is that his attacks on me are roughly equivalent to the rich and powerful accusing the Occupy movement of "class warfare." But he's too caught up in his self-righteousness to see that.

- What's so farcically ironic is that you've all done nothing but reinforce my arguments against you, and apparently don't even realize it. It would be hilarious were it not so disappointing. Foolishness, fallaciousness, rewriting history, hypocrisy. A bunch of solipsistic sophists. "Open your eyes," indeed.

- Hey Gene, stop trying to police the forums. Psy said it's not allowed. Not allowed, he said so.

- In closing, have you all sufficiently got all your FEELS out yet?

[Word]

edit: perhaps this scene is more appropriate than what I linked before. Replace Harding with Phytotron, McMurphy with sine, and weepy Cheswick with me if that helps


(before the edits: "Now I want to write a play with a plot similar to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, minus the 1960s mental ward setting and the optimistic parts. And more one-sided conversations.")

[Gonzap]

I'm reserving this post to answer to that essay tomorrow. Yeah, you're not going unpunished with all the crap you've sorted out, "son".

Here we go.

[...] where all the frustrated kids[...]. What's more obnoxious, we've been over all this manufactured controversy before, several times, but you all never learn. You're either dense or stubborn[...]

Yeah it's not only us who have something to learn from this thread. At this point I'm starting to believe it's impossible to have a normal conversation with you if we're the part of the community you kindly called "frustrated kids". Well I'm not frustrated, and I'm not a kid. I guess I have like half your age and that could make you believe you have some kind of innate power of calling us out like that. You're not, I deserve respect and the rest of the frustrated kids also deserve respect that you're not showing.
For the last sentence, yeah I'm really stubborn.

- Drop the entitlement complex. You are not entitled to not be disagreed with. Your opinions are not sacrosanct. If you make a statement, especially if you put forth an assertion, you need to be prepared to have someone criticize it.

You're right there. I was part of the community who thought opinions couldn't be wrong. Well I thought about it and you have a point. But the fact an opinion may be wrong is relative, because in some specific cases both opinions are right, depending on the person that makes the statement. For example: if I believe a 170 cm guy is a tall guy and you believe a tall guy has to be 180 cm to be tall we will disagree and nobody will be right or wrong. I can tell you you're wrong and you can tell me I'm wrong, and some people may agree with me or you but the answer will not be absolute. Depends on the person.

The thing is Psy was prepared for criticism, he and me by the way, weren't prepared for the load of shit you've spouted as a reaction of his comment. You can criticize but not be disrespectful. At least that's what we expect from a grown up. What makes you better than us "frustrated kids" if you can't behave properly?

You see, we do say "you're wrong, and the reasons are the following...." You won't have it, though. On the other side, you're perfectly willing to insult others, entirely side-stepping any substantive argument.

Oh that was funny. So you, who can't make a solid post without insulting your interlocutor are going to tell me, or us, whatever, we are willing to insult without making any point? You do clearly state your points, but the crap that comes with them is what's wrong.
That fact is the main reason we're having this conversation right now.

- Drop the crude, [...]

Same point as before, same answer.

- There's that old adage: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to their own facts.[...]

I don't get your point here. "Entitled" makes no sense when I translate it into Spanish so if you could make your point with other words it'd be nice. I also don't understand the rest.

- Drop the persecution complex. There is a difference between being a legitimate victim of persecution or bullying—which you are not in any way—and just being a whiny, petty, spoiled, ineffectual brat who believes he's entitled to having his say without being disagreed with, and who childishly takes any challenge as a personal affront.

Holy sh*t. So you're saying you don't personally affront people? you're saying we take it personal? you call us "whiny, petty, spoiled, ineffectual brats" or "frustrated kids, weak-minded" and when we complain you're basically saying "YOU WHINER IT'S NOT PERSONAL".
Disagree with me all you want that's not what pisses me off, when will you get it?

- You lot are consistently misusing the terms "bully" and "troll." Those terms have particular meanings, and you are totally misapplying them[...] You are not describing reality when you attribute those terms to me.

Okey let me explain you my reasoning on this. We can translate bullying into Spanish as "acoso" which in English would be "harassment". Let's take a look at dictionary meaning of the word bully.

a person who uses strength or influence to harm or intimidate those who are weaker

Anyone would agree with me that you hold influence on these forums, you're around here a lot more than most of the people and you're a strong person with strong beliefs who state them whenever he has the chance to. You're stronger than me here. You have an age advantage, a language advantage and probably also "contacts" advantages over me. So I'm weaker than you in this specific context. Let's get into the juicy part. I call you bully because you use all the stuff I said before to intimidate or harm me (and others) in many ways. You abuse us because you consider us weak-minded frustrated kids (I won't be tired of repeating that over and over you may have noticed), and our opinions are not only invalid, they're also bullshit, babbling and idiocy.

- Worse, on the prior two points, many of you, once again, epitomize the pot calling the kettle black. Punching someone repeatedly then complaining that they hurt your hand. And on that you cannot rewrite history. Almost all of it is documented right here on this forum. I say almost, because that's excluding the actual trolling and flaming, even defacement of this forum, at my expense that was deleted by moderators or which took place with or in the game itself.

That's what's great! It's all documented! You know what's also documented? Your posts.

- Drop the inferiority complex. I do not use advanced vocabulary, and in fact have dumbed it down and been more casual with it since the last silly fuss made about it. And whatever "big words" I do use are not employed as a means to impress or lord myself over others. Words represent ideas, concepts, meaning. Vocabulary isn't primarily about how it makes you come off to others, but about the ability to comprehend and express ideas.
Let me repeat that: Vocabulary is not only about being better able to express ideas outwardly, not only about reading comprehension, but it is crucial in enhancing your very capacity to think about complex concepts. That's science, folks.

Would you start teaching maths with integrals? If I can't understand what you're saying most of the time how can we have a proper conversation? And I'm not an idiot, I would be able to hold on to you if it was my native language. I'm learning English everyday but it's pretty hard to do so when you can't get a word of an entire sentence. And there are other people around who have even lower level than me and also probably want to participate in debates but it's not possible when you make no sense to them. How come sinewav, z-man or compguygene make their points perfectly clear and you don't? Are they dumber? I don't think so. They just adapted to the situation we've got here. A community with people from all around the globe, with ages between 13 and 50 (at least) that wish to share ideas with the rest. But you didn't, or you don't adapt. You only worry about making your points but not about who you're talking to.

Furthermore, when you lack the vocabulary to first process and then express ideas, it often leads to frustration and lashing out, like babies who don't know how to express their anger and instead throw a fit. Remember what mommy said: "Use your words." Well, you're no longer 3 years old; time to get some better words.

Except for the babies part what's again offensive and personal, I agree with you. You sometimes help me develop my skills on the matter. But sometimes you make no sense to me, and I'm pretty sure others have the same problem.

Being all upset over your perception that the use of "big words" is some deliberate demonstration of personality or status is all on you, all in your head. It's your petty hang up; it's not something I've put on you. If you find it so frustrating that I use words you don't know, look them up. Learn something. THINK. Stop crying. If you can't handle that, then just bug off and stick to your insular little self-segregated places where everyone is just like you and you never have to deal with things you don't like.

It may be in my head but it's really weird someone speaks that way in a forums made of young people and foreigners if not to show himself over the others. We know what you're capable of doing, or writing, now "dumb it up" a bit more if you want coherent conversations.
By the way, I do look the words up when I don't know them. But it's not only vocabulary. You can search every word of a sentence and still make no sense to you.

And let me tell you something else. If you're going to be resentful toward everyone in this world who's a little bit smarter than you, you're not going to get very far in this life, and will have a hard time at it. You're going to become the type of person who worships the likes of Sarah Palin or thinks Jersey Shore is high class art. That's no way to go through life, son.

I'm not resentful at you because you're smarter, I even admire you for many reasons. Your knowledge, your strong opinions over everything in the world, and specifically your music knowledge are truly fascinating. What I'm resentful about is your attitude, the way you talk to people when they don't have the same opinion as you. The way you feel all that knowledge makes you better or in a position to tell everyone what to do and call them out as babies, kids, and weak-minded people. Way too much arrogance to go through life, father.

- Of course, all that said, I think you're also, in part, full of shit. You don't get angry at anyone else using decent vocabulary or being articulate. You just hate me and use this "stop being pretentious" (oops, big word) line of attack just for the sake of attack.

Well you don't know me at all. I'm not full of shit and I don't hate you, I actually don't hate anyone around here. I don't even hate Liz when we argued for years. But I do believe you hate us. You're the one attacking people for no reason. I wouldn't have posted in first place if you weren't a pretentious jerk towards Psy. And I say Psy because he's the newer example, but you're also a pretentious jerk towards everyone but the little group you seem to respect.

- Indeed, that final point is true for most if not all of your complaints and accusations against me. It's personal, not principled, something you've all demonstrated countless times over, and blatantly so right here in this thread.

My complaints are founded, when will you realize that.

- Your group is actually trying to gang up and run (bully?) me "and co." off of this forum as much as you claim I "and co." are trying to run off others. Indeed, you're being explicit about wanting to achieve that. Once more, blatant hypocrisy. The fact is, contrary to your absurd accusations, I have no desire to "rule" this forum. On the other hand, some of you have made it quite clear that you do in fact want to dominate this forum and turn it into your own cliquish little playground where you can in fact "bully" people with impunity. Admit it. You're simply resentful that you aren't getting your way.[...]

Don't get confused. I've never said I want you off the forums, I've said we're tired of you. I may not been clear, I meant we're tired of your attitude and your superiority complex. Drop that out and we'll be cool.
Where did we say we want to dominate this forum? In what do you base to say we want to bully people with impunity? These are just biased accusations with no solid backgroud information. Who's the one hating here? Who's the one making assumptions here?

- What's so farcically ironic is that you've all done nothing but reinforce my arguments against you, and apparently don't even realize it. It would be hilarious were it not so disappointing. Foolishness, fallaciousness, rewriting history, hypocrisy. A bunch of solipsistic sophists. "Open your eyes," indeed.

Check Z-mans first comment. You deliberately ignored it. You're also reinforcing our arguments against you.

- Hey Gene, stop trying to police the forums. Psy said it's not allowed. Not allowed, he said so.

He's not trying to police the forums. He's trying to stop this nonsense, which is nonsense because we're not getting anywhere. This argument has come up with nothing solid. And that makes it annoyingly pointless. If we advanced an inch with the previous 10 posts he'd have not posted to stop this. But you're not going to step down your white horse and you will keep treating people like scum, that's what I believe. Prove me wrong.

[Phytotron]

You're not going unpunished

Tyson badass.gif (878.64 KiB) Viewed 2399 times

I'm reserving this post to answer to that essay tomorrow.

"No way to go through life, son."

[Kijutsu]

Weren't gifs disabled? Ban Phyto for evading the gif ban pls!

NO I'M SERIOUS. I loved using gifs and Z-Man got rid of it because he hates me.

#bringbackgifs2012

[þsy]

Some have said they don't want you here Phyto - that's true, but I've never made such a suggestion. All I want, as I have stated repeatedly, is for comments to be less personal and less negative. That doesn't mean you can't disagree with people, just don't be so damned nasty and rude about it. It often looks like - and sorry if this isn't the case - that you're putting down others in order to elevate yourself

- Psy has expressed some sort of affinity for the Occupy movement, but the irony is that his attacks on me are roughly equivalent to the rich and powerful accusing the Occupy movement of "class warfare." But he's too caught up in his self-righteousness to see that.

This actually made me lol. Going back to Z-man's observation, I could equally argue that you represent the 1%, and that you use your 'clout' to crush the rest of us (the 99%) on this forum. And so by problematising what you're doing, we are essentially acting ourselves as the 'Occupy' Movement, taking back this forum from those who control it

I know you'll tear that comment to shreds - so please listen up: I am NOT suggesting that; just turning your ridiculous comment on it's head. Why you brought that up I have no idea, once again - personal and nasty

As for the postmodernism remark, well, why can't we think different things? What your saying sounds like any opinions I put forward will get destroyed until I agree with your opinion. Is that what you're suggesting? Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it has to change right? I'm not asking you to change, I'm asking you to censor your posts so they're less offensive

But this has gone on too long, I am bored