Apology

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Word
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Re: Apology

Post by Word »

Phytotron wrote:It's only explainable within the context of internet culture, and the degenerated, diseased minds that have resulted from it.
Heh, today I've read a magazine article that mentioned this study about facebook and narcism. But the two or three of my friends on facebook that already have 800 friends or more aren't narcists by any means, just well-liked and registered there for a long time, or can't say no whenever they get a friend request. I think there's a lot of truth in it regardless.
Lizmatic wrote:if i was in a lord of the flies situation, i'd win
Unless the island is male-dominated, and everyone there acts like you, Elmo and Gazelle. The whole point of the book is to show that a society without such principles ultimately self-destructs and that barbarism and anarchy don't get you very far.

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þsy
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Re: Apology

Post by þsy »

Phytotron wrote:Psy did, and I really don't know why, other than to ostentatiously muse over what he thinks he's learned from his gender studies class(es) at university, or whatever he's babbling about
þsy wrote:People are a little too eager to belittle other's opinions which has crushed any creative discussion
Yeah, hey Phyto, the way you talk to people on here is not very nice. You, along with Sine, and apprentice Word rule this palace, policing posts - telling people why they're wrong and you're right, making personal jibes whilst you're at it

So, this is it for me as far as 'general' discussion goes, cyaaaouywww

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Re: Apology

Post by Word »

You're going ad-hominem now, and then retreat? chicken...

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þsy
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Re: Apology

Post by þsy »

Nope, I always discuss the points put in front of me - it's when you can't distinguish between 'ideas' and the people who have them that things get 'ad-hominem'. Any time someone tries to put forward an 'idea', about anything - music, film, politics etc., the aforementioned do a very good job of shooting the 'idea' + the person down

Paradoxically, simply by mentioning your names (Phyto, Sine, and Word), I am myself getting personal. Well, I'm just a bit tired of it - trying to be polite and discussing things equally, when all I get is a ton of shit thrown back at me at every corner. So as I'm out, I might as well share my thoughts:

You three bully people on these forums. The internet is often thought to have enabled more horizontal, non-hierarchical discussion - yet through repeatedly putting down and belittling others, you have created for yourself a greater 'clout' than other members of this forum.

I believe that Phyto, who I have literally never seen play tron or even appear on the armabrowser in 4 years of my time playing, has bullied people across the forums for years, simply to make himself feel like a bigger person. Maybe he doesn't get to exercise the power he seeks in real life, so he manages to get his kicks out by stalking people on a forum for a game that he doesn't even play? I wouldn't want to say, I've never met the guy

Sine, on the hand, hooked up with Phyto a while back to make a killer double team. While he wasn't as offensive, he used his bullying (plus the genuinely hard work he put into running ladles) to develop a greater say on matters regarding ladle issues than other people. This, meant his posts carried more weight than us other average tronners, and has made people afraid to to contradict anything he's said at the risking of getting squashed by the big man, leaving no room for further discussion

Word, finally, has seen the way Phyto and Sine operate and the power they wield, and has decided to go after it himself. He then waits for posts from others, scours the internet for a funny and 'smart' comment to make, chucking in the odd Greek philosopher while he's at it - coz no one can argues wid dem - and then sits back arguing some ridiculous point to death. At first, his posts offended Phyto and Sine greatly, but once they realised he was just trying to be like them, they took him under their wings as their apprentice

THERE WE GO. Many years of frustration there (and not just my own opinion, lots of angry discussions have revolved around not being able to discuss stuff because of you three)

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Re: Apology

Post by Word »

That post offers a lot of stuff to reply to.
Any time someone tries to put forward an 'idea', about anything
And he's usually expected to provide reasons for it, or something that makes it plausible and discussible at all. That's why I asked you to clarify what you meant after you said I didn't understand anything. You wouldn't get a 'ton of shit' thrown back at you if you had not thrown one yourself (and I think the reaction was relatively mild. I still have no clue how your two ideas are relevant).
yet through repeatedly putting down and belittling others, you have created for yourself a greater 'clout' than other members of this forum.
Proof?
I believe that Phyto, [...]
Now that is just dumb crap and based on the fact that you hardly play anything besides Fortress and Sumo. He's on the forums every two or three days and using common sense to point out some inconsistencies in posts like yours. Not sure how to get power by doing that. Though I remember Liz and her lapdogs have stalked him for some time.

Sine, [...]
Ugh, are you sure you're in SP and not that other clan that thinks sine and kyle (that's right: kyle!) conspired to rig the ladle? His posts carry more weight because they are to the point and logical, even if you disagree with them (same for Phytotron's). It has nothing to do with his role in the ladle organization whatsoever, except how committed he is there. If anything in Armagetron is an unthankful job (besides trying to drag Liz back to the sane world), it's helping to organize the Ladle and having to deal with all the shit that is regularly thrown at him from people like Flex (Flex of course is special, but I guess sine could name other examples, like..umm...you?). Well, I don't know about you Psy, but I would neither have tried to find a compromise after a post like that, nor helped the tournament to continue.
odd Greek philosopher
I thought Aristotle is the one most people have read, here's a list with some odd ones. And I summarized it.
He then waits for posts from others, scours the internet for a funny and 'smart' comment to make
Yeah, except that I don't wait for them and need like one minute to scour the internet, and two for the comment. And even then they often aren't intended to be smart, funny or insulting. That's just what one likes to see in them when they contradict his own malarky. You can still try to convince me how those ideas I criticized matter.
And I still post some absurdities myself every now and then, you're welcome to go up against me there.
Last edited by Word on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:15 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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þsy
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Re: Apology

Post by þsy »

I went a little too far, but that is in essence how I feel you operate on this forum

As for that particular incident (and I'm talking about 4 years worth here, not one particular thing) flex spoke for himself, not SP. And once again, here I am speaking on my behalf and no one else's...

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Re: Apology

Post by Word »

flex spoke for himself, not SP
Is that relevant? Did I say he spoke for SP?

(rhetoric, save your time)

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Kijutsu
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Re: Apology

Post by Kijutsu »

Psy, you have some good points but I hope you realize nobody's going to listen to them.

I actually like sine, sure, he makes fun of people but he makes fun of everyone. Even me! But we're still cool, you should learn to take it less personal as it's really not.. that personal. Word tries really hard, that's all I can say about him. Phyto is looking to correct mostly teenagers on a teenage forum, naturally there's more ignorance on a gaming forum than(then?) let's say.. a forum discussing philosophy, history and things that are more relevant to life.

All in all, just stop caring(like me) or put more thought into your posts so they can't say anything.

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þsy
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Re: Apology

Post by þsy »

Yeah that's good advice

I think I made my post sound a little more personal than how I really felt; it's annoying being put down yourself, but when you see it happen to other people all the time - that is frustrating, you've gotta look out for the little people in this life, even on stupid gaming forums. That's my philosophy at least :D

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Re: Apology

Post by Word »

And now I'm about to vomit.

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þsy
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Re: Apology

Post by þsy »

(Nicest player on tron 2K13)

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delinquent
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Re: Apology

Post by delinquent »

What I have just witnessed here is reminiscent of really bad diplomatic ball dodging.

I hope that says something to all of you, and just how petty this all really is. It's gone off at a tangent, and brought out many people's reservations with each other. The problem is that the internet, particularly in this context, amplifies negativity, in a manner of speaking. While you all seem very intent on guiding younger users (nowt wrong with that), your bickering with each other, no matter how well constructed or intelligently worded, is no better than the squabbles between the young users that you so wish to mould.

Now tell me: is that, or is that not, the actual paradox here?

Edit: It occurred to me that by stepping into this foul den, so to speak, I am imbitriating myself with the same consequential "phlegm" that is depicted here. However, this is not my intention; it is simply to point out my view:- That this argument has lost all relativity to it's subject, and has merely become a means of derision and attack upon each other. Speaking of such attacks, it was mentioned previously that you all appear to be friends. How, then, do you justify the insults that fly between you? In life, do you not live with people whom are not to your own taste? Yet it is unlikely in any culture that you would attack them so. Doing it here merely falsely justifies intimidation! If you constructed such assaults in real life, you would soon be without company; People would simply not be able to stand you! So no matter how much easier it is to argue in such ways here, the end results will be the same; a loop of never-ending persecution for such a small erroneous nature as speaking too candidly!

/endpreach

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Phytotron
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Re: Apology

Post by Phytotron »

What a silly post, psy. It never ceases to amaze me the culture and warped sense of etiquette and morality some of you espouse. All the trolls, bigots, and otherwise malicious people in this game and on this forum, and you're going to call me, sine, or Word bullies? Me, the person who has been been the object of abuse and elaborate trolling from the likes of Liz and company for years on end, and has spent those years scolding their abhorrent behavior?

You'd call a cop a bully for cuffing a spousal abuser.
þsy wrote:Any time someone tries to put forward an 'idea', about anything - music, film, politics etc., the aforementioned do a very good job of shooting the 'idea' + the person down
Another example. You get upset about substantive debate or argument about an actual 'idea' (why did you put that word in quotes, by the way? I have a theory), but I've never seen you scold anyone for actual mistreatment of others. For crying out loud, you're siding with Liz, of all people. (Surely you realize that if this argument weren't with me, she wouldn't be siding with you, right?) So, by your standards, personal insults are cool, trash talk is cool, trolling and flaming are cool. But debating an actual subject? No, we can't have that. All opinions must be treated with kid gloves! We've been over this before. What you're actually objecting to is the very fact of being disagreed with. "You can't say I'm wrong! I'm special. You're such a bully!"
Well, I'm just a bit tired of it - trying to be polite and discussing things equally
That lamentation might carry more weight if you were in fact universal and consistent in your criticisms of people's ill behavior. You should be scolding people left and right. But you're not. You're simply behaving and saying essentially the same things as Gaz, only more articulately so. Are you aware?

And again, we've already been over your silly notion of what it means to "discuss things equally."
The internet is often thought to have enabled more horizontal, non-hierarchical discussion
Har!
I believe that Phyto, who I have literally never seen play tron or even appear on the armabrowser in 4 years of my time playing
Wow, literally? Literally? I'm sure it is true that you haven't seen the name "Phytotron" in game. Therefore, I must never play, and never have played. :roll: Awesome logic there, bub.
...has bullied people across the forums for years, simply to make himself feel like a bigger person. ... I wouldn't want to say, I've never met the guy
But you did just say. "I'm going to make up some psychoanalytical bullshit, tie it up in an insult, then absolve myself of it by pretending like I'm not judgmental." Yes, you're so above the fray, aren't you.
Sine, on the hand, hooked up with Phyto a while back to make a killer double team. While he wasn't as offensive, he used his bullying (plus the genuinely hard work he put into running ladles) to develop a greater say on matters regarding ladle issues than other people. This, meant his posts carried more weight than us other average tronners, and has made people afraid to to contradict anything he's said at the risking of getting squashed by the big man, leaving no room for further discussion
It's obviously a deliberate scheme. So devious. You've figured us out. Quick, sine, we must retreat to our evil lair!
At first, (Word's) posts offended Phyto and Sine greatly, but once they realised he was just trying to be like them, they took him under their wings as their apprentice
You're really a piece of work. As recently as a month ago, and a month before that, I got all over Word's case. And probably times between and since; those two just sprang to mind. I argue with Word all the damn time. And, by the way, in case you've forgotten, I've sided with you on a few things. I've even backed up a few things Liz has said on the very rare occasion it has actually made a substantive post (a roughly 5% incidence), as opposed to just trolling or flaming someone.

You see, my allegiance here is to ideas and principles. You say something stupid, I'm going to call you on it, whomever you are. Both Word and sinewav can attest to that, as I've called out the both of them on various things. But you ignore all that; it would ruin your confirmation bias.

As I said, I give Word a hard time on a regular basis. But what's the difference? Why did I defend him up there? Not because of your laughably ridiculous "apprentice" claim. But because the fact is, the guy has demonstrated that he thinks. That he has intellectual curiosity and that he's interested in what's right (even if he's wrong a lot), and he does the reading and thinking to support and facilitate that. He's interested in being sensible (even when he's not). And I respect that. As well, because he can engage in an argument without reacting in the postmodernist way you or someone like Venijn do ("you're not allowed to say I'm wrong! all views are equal, especially mine!"), nor in the internet/gaming culture manner in which so many others here do (juvenile shit talk, trolling, flaming, etc.). Look what he just said: "And I still post some absurdities myself every now and then, you're welcome to go up against me there." And it's true.

Word says boneheaded stuff all the time, and he gets called on it, often by me, with myself often the most heavy-handed about it. But what does he do? He goes to the argument, we both do. We throw jabs at each other, but they're always in the context of the argument. There's a difference between that and just plain vitriolic insults and actual bullying. He also doesn't get a bunch of lackeys in whatever his current clique is to come "defend" him by attacking me or whomever with hypocritical insults.

Another important point: Word isn't malicious.


See, I contend you define "bullying" as any expression of strong opinion, even strong will, especially if it is backed up by a case (omg lots of words) instead of being a one-liner, and, importantly, without it being couched it in a bunch of evasive hedge words and phrases.

So, I think that in actuality, this isn't about principled behavior. Rather, this is personal for you. You don't like being challenged, so much so that you feel it emotionally to the point of mislabeling it "bullying." Howsat for some psychoanalysis?


Here's a question, a truly profound and abstract proposition, granted: Did it ever occur to you that we three might simply agree on some stuff? Maybe we have similar attitudes and even temperaments about some things?

Nahhhh, couldn't be. It's clearly all a coordinated plan to rule this domain.

lots of angry discussions have revolved around not being able to discuss stuff because of you three
Baloney. The problem is, other people don't actually try to discuss anything. It's either the group of 4chan/Encyclopedia Dramatica social rejects, or it's your type who want to be all postmodernist and not have anyone disagree with you. That's the problem. People either want to be heard but not challenged, or just want to shit on other people "for teh lulz." But then when one of us comes along and points that out, we're the bad guy. Such is the nature of the bizarro reality that is this forum, and in large degree the internet as a whole. Don't judge me!
þsy wrote:(Nicest player on tron 2K13)
But you're not. That's the other problem. You're a phony. Your idea of "being nice" is to ignore actual wrongdoing and scold those who don't. It's warped, self-centered pollyannaism. You've brought up the concept of "performativity" before. I say you're performing some notion of what you think is supposed to be a bleeding-heart liberal. Moreover, you're more interested in being liked than in doing good. Howsat?
þsy wrote:it's annoying being put down yourself, but when you see it happen to other people all the time - that is frustrating, you've gotta look out for the little people in this life, even on stupid gaming forums. That's my philosophy at least :D
Oh, really. "Little people?" What little people? Seriously. And whom have you ever defended besides yourself? And why have you not ever criticised the myriad and various insults and put downs leveled by those who happen to be on your side at the moment? Get over yourself. I say again, you're a phony.


Now, psy, watch how much crap this post gets over the next few days, and let's see what you're going to do about it, Mr. Kumbaya.

delinquent wrote:just how petty this all really is.
I believe I've been saying that all along.

*****
Word wrote:narcism
That word is a bastid to spell, huh.
The whole point of the book (Lord of the Flies) is to show that a society without such principles ultimately self-destructs and that barbarism and anarchy don't get you very far.
And tribalism.

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Re: Apology

Post by Word »

þsy wrote:I think I made my post sound a little more personal than how I really felt; it's annoying being put down yourself, but when you see it happen to other people all the time - that is frustrating, you've gotta look out for the little people in this life, even on stupid gaming forums. That's my philosophy at least :D
It's pretty difficult to reply to that in a coherent way. After you posted that psycho-stuff, I didn't try to put you down but I thought what you said made no sense. So my reply didn't just "happen", I wrote it because I truly didn't get what the purpose of your post was (and wondering whether you're able to explain it further). What is frustrating is getting told "you have no clue what I'm talking about, so goodbye!". So when someone says something along the lines of "Do you mean this: [drastic example here]. Don't you see that you're wrong?" that is your chance to sort out misunderstandings.

And the "little people"-part is dreadful - everyone here has access to the internet so nobody is part of that group in the first place, if you are referring to personal wealth. And even if you divide our community in such groups (e.g. "the little people" as opposed to "the intellectuals", or big clans and individual players), being part of one of these groups is no excuse for silly behaviour.

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þsy
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Re: Apology

Post by þsy »

I'm glad this has happened

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