age, ageism, maturity...

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gawdzilla
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by gawdzilla »

Lucifer wrote:Sure, and when my ex-wife CHOSE not to fight back while the guy raped her and gave her chlamydia, it was fine, it was a choice, and it was hers to make.

Right?
tmi and a stupid comparison

i know a guy who chooses to remain in the closet because he's also asexual or something so his need isn't that big and he tolerates being with a woman, he's choosing the straight lifestyle because it's easier, it's a choice, he isn't being forced into it, there's no gun against his head no matter how miserable he might be

i don't know why that's making you so angry, some people might be so depressed and ashamed that they stay in the closet but they can still choose to come out and face the adversity but they don't

it's a choice

i've said choice far too much in this topic i'm gonna stop now :- )))
When did you choose to live a heterosexual lifestyle? Oh, right, you didn't *have* to make a choice.
hence why i said having the option isn't a choice (okay last time i said that word)

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Lucifer
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by Lucifer »

gawdzilla wrote: i know a guy who chooses to remain in the closet because he's also asexual or something so his need isn't that big and he tolerates being with a woman, he's choosing the straight lifestyle because it's easier, it's a choice, he isn't being forced into it, there's no gun against his head no matter how miserable he might be
So he's choosing to be miserable so he doesn't have to face adversity. Exactly what I mean.

And the reason I'm getting angry about it is because that sort of attitude is precisely the sort of thing that contributes to the continuing adversity homosexuals face.

YOU don't face that adversity to be straight. But HE does. That isn't right. That's prejudice, plain and simple.

I'd think that someone in an interracial relationship would be more tolerant than that, I really would. (And before you flame me for that comment, I should point out that I too am in an interracial relationship, and I live in ******' Texas, one of the least racially tolerant states in the US)
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sinewav
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by sinewav »

Lucifer wrote:So he's choosing to be miserable so he doesn't have to face adversity. Exactly what I mean.
...
YOU don't face that adversity to be straight. But HE does. That isn't right. That's prejudice, plain and simple.
I think one of the points Liz is trying to make is that there are different degrees of choice for some homosexuals. I bet there are those whose need or desire to "be out" isn't as great as others, and maybe some don't feel the need at all. I can even imagine some closet homosexuals who live in such a strong, loving, accepting environments that coming out would make virtually difference at all in their life so they choose not to even address it. This would be in great contrast to those who grow up gay in homophobic households. I'm speculating of course because I've never met an individual like this.

And I know it seems like Liz is part of the "overall problem" regarding her statements, but I tend to think otherwise. She seems like the kind of person that would say, "Your gay? So what?" ...and I think that's ultimately where we want to be as a society. Without distinction.


Also, please forgive me for butting into your conversation, it's not my place. One thing to remember though is you guys seem to be arguing from the same side somewhat needlessly, since I believe you're both pro-LGBT, right?

gawdzilla
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by gawdzilla »

Lucifer wrote:So he's choosing to be miserable so he doesn't have to face adversity. Exactly what I mean.
regardless of feelings, it's a choice and that's what i meant by you choose the lifestyle you live.
And the reason I'm getting angry about it is because that sort of attitude is precisely the sort of thing that contributes to the continuing adversity homosexuals face.
what attitude? my statement of "the lifestyle is a choice but the option isn't" was stating that it isn't a choice to BE gay, but it's your choice how you express and live by it.
YOU don't face that adversity to be straight. But HE does. That isn't right. That's prejudice, plain and simple.
everyone faces adversity, albeit for different reasons. i still choose to deal with it.
I'd think that someone in an interracial relationship would be more tolerant than that, I really would. (And before you flame me for that comment, I should point out that I too am in an interracial relationship, and I live in ******' Texas, one of the least racially tolerant states in the US)
the only person getting angry and about to flame someone, is you. and don't get it twisted, you have a different opinion but that doesn't make me wrong.


sine.wav, i'm not pro-lgbt just like i'm not pro-heterosexuals(whatever) because you're right, like i care if you're gay.

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sinewav
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by sinewav »

gawdzilla wrote:sine.wav, i'm not pro-lgbt just like i'm not pro-heterosexuals(whatever) because you're right, like i care if you're gay.
:wink: Totally.

I'd like to add that, while some people might lie to themselves and hide their true sexual identity, human being are pretty good at lying to themselves about a lot of things to cover their pain, regardless of race or gender. Hey, if that's what works for you then so be it.

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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by chrisd »

gawdzilla wrote:you can say you don't like the words "gay lifestyle" but thats what its called if you are having sexual and romantic relationships with the same gender, living with someone of the same gender having children with them etc
This terminology might be somewhat common, but it is also a rather unskillful way of describing lifestyles as I noted before. Of course, a person might choose to be willingly unskillful, even after being educated about the insensibility of their parlance, but such behavior would not seem to be very smart.

Also, in posts that came after yours so many different meanings of the phrase "gay lifestyle" have been noticed by various participants of the discussion that using it does not seem to be conductive to meaningful communication.

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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by chrisd »

sinewav wrote:I'd like to add that, while some people might lie to themselves and hide their true sexual identity, human being are pretty good at lying to themselves about a lot of things to cover their pain, regardless of race or gender. Hey, if that's what works for you then so be it.
Actually, "lying to themselves about a lot of things" mostly does not work. It is what makes people ultimately regret their life choices when they arrive at the end of it. Truth is strong and it does win the majority of the battles waged against it. Also, one might not particularly like finding oneself at the wrong end of truths verdict. Let us all decide to love truth and it will not fail to return the favor.

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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by chrisd »

On a different note: time for CELEBRATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe a few or a lot of you have seen my instant chat "The Netherlands is great: first country to open marriage for gays!!!!!!!" This is what we need to celebrate!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has been exactly ten years!!!!!!!!!!! On april 1st 2001, the first marriage between persons of the same sex was closed by Job Cohen, the major of Amsterdam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Flowers for everybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Phytotron
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by Phytotron »

I condemn your love for exclamation points! "If everything is emphasized, nothing is." :x :P (But yes, it is a very positive anniversary.)

gawdzilla wrote:sine.wav, i'm not pro-lgbt just like i'm not pro-heterosexuals(whatever) because you're right, like i care if you're gay.
The problem with that sort of sentiment, although it's ostensibly righteous, is that it pretends like everything is fine and equal, and there's no point acknowledging the differences. But, that's sloppy and arguably harmful, just as pretending like race or gender don't exist ("I'm post-racial, I don't see color, race doesn't matter"—which is just plain naive, at best). In effect, you're choosing to turn a blind eye, or bury your head in the sand (whatever idiom you like), to the inequalities, injustices, oppression, subjugation, discrimination, or whatever's applicable, those groups face in reality—regardless of what you believe in theory. Those things must be recognised and addressed head-on in order to right these injustices. Passivity, apathy, deliberate ignorance, no matter how much piety you try to wrap it up into, contributes in its own way to, at the least, maintaining these conditions. Rather, it's better to think, "yes, I do care that you're gay, in that I care about ending cultural bigotry and legal discrimination against you." When one uses a term like "pro-GLBT" it's a reference to supporting equal rights for said people. It's not implying favoring them over heteros.

That is, unless you're satisfied with the way things are, especially that which doesn't directly affect you (which does seem to be the case with you).
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Lord Pein
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by Lord Pein »

Phytotron wrote:lizcats
I would have to disagree with you. I was the ONLY African-American in my school from preschool to 8th grade; I was never discriminated against, and it's because..... no1curr. My race was hardly ever brought up, unless we were discussing getting sunburned (which I am immune to on this planet).

ALSO

The reason gays are hardly ever discriminated against on WoW (or at least in all the raid groups I was in) was because... no1curr.

Unless you are going to recognize every difference between everyone, ignore the differences in everyone and just accept the fact that everyone is different, just like everyone else.

You may be correct in the statement about ignoring the differences is like ignoring the injustices/inequalities/cats; but I have found that ignoring the differences gets rid of the discrimination.

I like Cheetos, you like Doritos.
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Phytotron
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by Phytotron »

Yes, taste in chips is the same thing as cultural and legal discrimination. Hate to break it to you, but your individual, myopic, anecdotal experiences in school and on teh interwebz playing (read: wasting away your life) WoW is not the world.

Lord Pein wrote:getting sunburned (which I am immune to on this planet).
That's not actually true.

So bright.

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Lord Pein
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by Lord Pein »

Phytotron wrote:Yes, taste in chips is the same thing as cultural and legal discrimination. Hate to break it to you, but your individual, myopic, anecdotal experiences in school and on teh interwebz playing (read: wasting away your life) WoW is not the world.

Lord Pein wrote:getting sunburned (which I am immune to on this planet).
That's not actually true.

So bright.
/o
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by TaZ »

Phytotron wrote:Yes, taste in chips is the same thing as cultural and legal discrimination. Hate to break it to you, but your individual, myopic, anecdotal experiences in school and on teh interwebz playing (read: wasting away your life) WoW is not the world.

Lord Pein wrote:getting sunburned (which I am immune to on this planet).
That's not actually true.

So bright.
I have to agree with Phytotron on this one.

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Lord Pein
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by Lord Pein »

Phytotron, THINK.

Obviously my personal experiences are not the world.

And you really took the comment about being IMMUNE to sunburn literally!? ////o

If the world stopped making a big deal out of people's differences, we would be a lot better off.

Example:

At lunch, Jimmy buys Doritos and Johnny buys Cheetos. Nobody recognizes the difference, so there is no problem.

Later, at the school dance... Jimmy brings his boyfriend Chad and Johnny brings his girlfriend Sarah. People recognize the difference and Jimmy is picked on.

I'm not saying your preference in chips is the same thing as cultural and legal discrimination; I'm saying that when things are ignored in the first place (meaning sexuality), they don't cause problems (the cultural and legal discrimination).
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Re: age, ageism, maturity...

Post by Olive »

chrisd wrote:"The Netherlands is great: first country to open marriage for gays!!!!!!!" This is what we need to celebrate!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has been exactly ten years!!!!!!!!!!! On april 1st 2001, the first marriage between persons of the same sex was closed by Job Cohen, the major of Amsterdam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Was it a joke then? </badjoke>
Olive a.k.a ZeMu, MoonFlower & chicken.

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