Underage drinking? WHAAAAAAAA?

[MrsKsr]

I don't know.. I've smoked a lot of weed in the past and I was never "out of my own head" so to speak. I think it completely depends on how much you smoke, where you smoke, in what frequency and what kind of person you are. Personally, when I was high I did a lot of work (essay writing, poetry, sketching etc.) and my grades were far better than they were when I was sober. As for driving, stupidly I know, I have driven both drunk and high and found driving high to be far less 'frightening' and easier to handle than driving drunk. I actually found that my concentration levels were far higher because I was high. However, I'm not going to argue that it's a good idea to drive high, because it really isn't, but for me alcohol is in every way worse in that department.

I guess one of the strongest arguments for those who support the legalization of Marijuana is; "If alcohol and cigarettes are legal, what is your basis for keeping a 'less destructive' drug illegal?" and I kind of have to agree there. Yes, inhaling any burned "substance" for long periods of time is going to have a detrimental effect on our lungs, throat, mouth etc. But "smoking" Marijuana isn't the only way to consume it, and as of late it's sort of "getting old". A lot of people I know that still 'dabble' in weed 'smoking' tend to use a vaporizer, which has the benefit of not destroying your lungs, as well as getting more of the THC from the plant than you would via smoking it.

Speaking of medical Marijuana, I honestly am torn about it. My dad, who has stage 4 Lymphoma (doesn't have a set time left but it's terminal) can't seem to get any sort of peace without the use of Marijuana. None of the drugs they prescribe for him allow him to continue what he likes to do (mess w/ computers etc). He says the drugs make him feel lethargic, even more than Marijuana. It's not really about "removing" pain, in order to remove pain it would have to cure the issue causing it in the first place. In my opinion it's more about to what extent a drug can mask the pain.

For my dad, Marijuana is the best at that and I'm not about to tell a dying man that he shouldn't smoke, I am considering buying him a vape though. On the other hand, his mood does, at times, plummet and I do attribute part of this to "excessive" smoking but who can get inside the head of a terminal cancer patient and determine what is making them sad.. It's really a catch22 situation for cancer patients I feel. It is difficult to stay positive in the first place, should a person take a drug that can have a negative effect on your state of mind? Should the person take other, prescribed, drugs like Oxycontin? Sigh, I guess it's all about personal preference, but, there are a lot of cases where people have gone to jail for using it for pain management, both cancer patients and those who have forms of paralysis, and I find that really sad. I think that the law should cater more for this kind of stuff, all over the world, not just in the states. But I do agree, there appears to be quite a few medical Marijuana 'patients' who are revelling in it as opposed to putting Marijuana in a good light, also sad.

[Clutch]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011 ... tor&st=cse

Kind of interesting article.

(Got it from a post made by Willie Nelson's Teapot party )

[Lucifer]

Well, I didn't mean to derail the topic, but this is going a much better direction than the other "marijuana" thread went.

I don't know.. I've smoked a lot of weed in the past and I was never "out of my own head" so to speak.

Then you're Doing It Wrong.

Personally, when I was high I did a lot of work (essay writing, poetry, sketching etc.) and my grades were far better than they were when I was sober.

That doesn't surprise me. Pot seems to facilitate doing both dumb work and creative work. Don't get me wrong, the science is pretty clear that on the whole, people are more creative off drugs than on them, but there are instances where a person's short-term creative output is higher quality with drugs (Guns and Roses being a good example, heh).

In any case, I can see the obsessive part that kicks in when high facilitating doing the boring homework chores. It's the partying part of drugs that, imo, causes people to slack off when they start messing around. With drugs or without, there's really no substitute for a well-disciplined life.

As for driving, stupidly I know, I have driven both drunk and high and found driving high to be far less 'frightening' and easier to handle than driving drunk. I actually found that my concentration levels were far higher because I was high.

Your reflexes are still worse off than when drunk. That's one of the things that makes pot more dangerous. However, it doesn't screw up your hand-eye coordination as much as alcohol does. But be wary of making subjective judgments when you're high vs when not. You really need an objective third person to make that call for you, precisely because drugs of any kind, especially pot and alcohol, screw up your judgment while under the influence.

I guess one of the strongest arguments for those who support the legalization of Marijuana is; "If alcohol and cigarettes are legal, what is your basis for keeping a 'less destructive' drug illegal?"

I sort of agree with the argument, but it begs for a solution that bans alcohol and cigarettes. I'd be against the former ban, but in favor of the latter ban.

I think a stronger argument is more along the lines of "Recreational drug use, in moderation, can contribute significantly to a person's overall enjoyment of life, and therefore the banning of drug use is outside the scope of the government's power". Regulating stronger substances, like cocaine, caffeine, heroin, and so forth, are a different argument. (Yes, i think caffeine should be controlled, especially if pot is controlled)

But "smoking" Marijuana isn't the only way to consume it, and as of late it's sort of "getting old". A lot of people I know that still 'dabble' in weed 'smoking' tend to use a vaporizer, which has the benefit of not destroying your lungs, as well as getting more of the THC from the plant than you would via smoking it.

Maybe in europe, heh. Over here in the states, smoking is still the most common way to do it.

Speaking of medical Marijuana, I honestly am torn about it. My dad, who has stage 4 Lymphoma (doesn't have a set time left but it's terminal) can't seem to get any sort of peace without the use of Marijuana. None of the drugs they prescribe for him allow him to continue what he likes to do (mess w/ computers etc).

My dad reached stage 4 lymphoma twice, and was declared terminal twice, and still lived another 25 years or so. What finally killed him is unknown, he had enough different problems from just being old, never seeing a doctor (because every time a doctor found out he'd had cancer, they stuck him up with needles and he hated that), and a combination of things any one of which could have killed him. In the end, they couldn't do a biopsy without one of the other things killing him, but the x-rays and ct scans and MRIs all said the lymphoma probably came back.

Also, as a result of the chemo from when he had lymphoma, he lived the rest of his life in constant pain that only got worse. He lost the use of his legs the last couple of years of his life because of the nerve damage, and the list just goes on.

I'm really not convinced that smoking pot would have helped him, other than helping him sleep (which he needed). But he had a security clearance, so he adapted to his new pain-filled life on his own. He supported legalizing pot, and even said he'd be willing to try it if it were legal (which he had to insist upon, because he could lose his security clearance otherwise). Considering the potential it really had to help him out, I consider that a strong argument for its legalization.

I'm never going to agree that patients should or shouldn't smoke pot. I just don't approach it in that direction at all. I think its use as a recreational drug should be legal and regulated much the same as alcohol is. If I had it my way, then patients who wanted to use it along the lines of an herbal remedy would be free to do so. But I strongly believe the medical marijuana argument weakens the broader effort to get it legalized for recreational use, and by doing so, weakens both efforts.

I also think that herbal products need more regulation in general. Too many of those can kill you far more easily than drugs that are currently illegal! Even more of them really need a doctor's supervision. And then there's all the snake oil....

But at the same time, I think the market for herbal products gives a less stringent and generally safer venue for people to pursue different medical solutions in a more free market oriented way than the standard drug research/FDA approval system. We just need to keep in mind that the FDA regulates drug research for a reason, and that reason also applies to herbal products.

[Clutch]

Annual deaths from aspirin: 7,600
Annual deaths related to alcohol: 85,000
Annual deaths related to tobacco: 435,000
Annual deaths from marijuana: 0

[Lucifer]

Annual deaths from aspirin: 7,600
Annual deaths related to alcohol: 85,000
Annual deaths related to tobacco: 435,000
Annual deaths from marijuana: 0

98% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[sinewav]

Annual deaths from marijuana: 0

Here's a tip for school: If you are going to quote statistics, you need to cite a source. And, at least be consistent with your delivery. "From" and "related" are not the same. There certainly are deaths "from" marijuana (though it's nearly impossible to overdose on), and marijuana "related" deaths are pretty high actually.

Your post makes you look like a dumb stoner. Go learn some Pink Floyd songs on your guitar and gtfo.

[LucK]

Annual deaths from marijuana: 0

Here's a tip for school: If you are going to quote statistics, you need to cite a source. And, at least be consistent with your delivery. "From" and "related" are not the same. There certainly are deaths "from" marijuana (though it's nearly impossible to overdose on), and marijuana "related" deaths are pretty high actually.

Your post makes you look like a dumb stoner. Go learn some Pink Floyd songs on your guitar and gtfo.

.

You tell him to cite his source you cite yours bro.

[Clutch]

Your post makes you look like a dumb stoner. Go learn some Pink Floyd songs on your guitar and gtfo.

Didnt know not showing sources was so offensive.

http://www.selectsmart.com/DISCUSS/read.php?16,693724
http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

[sinewav]

You tell him to cite his source you cite yours bro.

I wasn't quoting any statistics. But I'm also not citing sources because the topic of marijuana and death is a bit tricky once you start looking into it. More on that in a moment.

http://www.selectsmart.com/DISCUSS/read.php?16,693724

A forum thread that begins with a picture of the chick from "Weeds" is probably not a good source to cite. The reason should be obvious.

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

Better, but there are interesting reasons why marijuana deaths "appear" to be non-existent.

The first reason comes from a data collection standpoint. Apparently, it's not common practice for coroners to test for marijuana in accidental death. And even if they do test and it's positive, that usually doesn't indicate whether the person was actually high at the time of death since you can test positive for weed when you are sober.

The second reason is, marijuana doesn't compare to other drugs in the category of "overdose." It's nearly impossible to OD from weed. But it's also extremely hard to OD on tobacco too (you really have to be trying hard). In this sense, tobacco and weed are in the same category. But how is it that tobacco deaths are so high and marijuana so low?

Easy. It's called "self-report." Self-report means just what you think it does. It's what you tell your doctor about your habits and health. It's the third reason marijuana statistics are as such. If your doctor asks you "do you smoke," you both assume he means tobacco. When he asks "do you do drugs" you might say, "oh I smoke weed once in a while, rarely" when in fact you regularly blaze like an inferno and you happen to be high in the doctor's office right now. Smoking is bad, both cigarettes and marijuana, but we treat them differently from a social standpoint. That's a critical difference. And that difference shows up in the numbers.

A fourth reason why marijuana has low readings on the death scale has to do with it's use related to other drugs, typically tobacco and alcohol. Are you one of those people who don't smoke or drink but LOVE the WEED? Guess what? You're the exception to the rule! (Take a moment to feel special.) It's actually pretty rare someone does one without the other. And that fact muddies the water a bit when it comes to reporting deaths. Tobacco and alcohol get the attention because they are extremely addictive substances. Marijuana is not addictive to the same degree, but is still harmful to your health. And again, people with health problems are likely to report tobacco and alcohol use much more readily than weed because of it's legality.

Let me briefly share two personal stories...

1.) I had a friend who tried weed for the first time when she was a teenager. She had an allergic reaction to it and was rushed to the emergency room. She almost died from weed. You think she's the only one who ever came close to dying from weed directly? I'm gonna go ahead an assume some other people weren't as lucky as her.

2.) This other girl I know smoked tons of weed as a teenager. She didn't smoke cigarettes or drink at all. Years later, she started drinking too. It became a problem and she has 2 DUI's now (both times she totaled the car and surprisingly lived). And just a few years ago, she started smoking cigarettes. Seriously, is that backwards or what? But the point is, weed has been with her every step of the way. It becomes intertwined in your life and it's hard to separate it from other drugs and activities. But with more and more public attention on marijuana, you'll start to see more and more negative statistics because people will actually be looking for them.

And finally, to those who think weed is just as harmless as smoking tobacco. Guess what? Weed certainly isn't healthier than tobacco with the same frequency of use. Remember that.


Note: I'm for the legalization of marijuana, but I thinks it's safety is over-hyped, necessarily, because groups are trying to sway public opinion toward legalization. It's just as unhealthy as alcohol and tobacco, but should probably share the same legal status anyway.

[Lord Pein]

Annual deaths from marijuana: 0

Here's a tip for school: If you are going to quote statistics, you need to cite a source. And, at least be consistent with your delivery. "From" and "related" are not the same. There certainly are deaths "from" marijuana (though it's nearly impossible to overdose on), and marijuana "related" deaths are pretty high actually.

If he's quoting statistics, he isn't the one to be responsible for the consistency in delivery (although it was his choice to quote the statistics from that source).

Your post makes you look like a dumb stoner. Go learn some Pink Floyd songs on your guitar and gtfo.

Credibility, your post now has none.

Loving this discussion btw!

[Tank Program]

*cough*

[INW]

*cough*

Are you ok?

I have some medicine if you need some.

[Lucifer]

Lest we forget the drug wars and virtual slavery that happen in countries that grow marijuana. Your $25 quarter ounce bag goes to fund all the middlemen (most of which are selling to support their own more expensive habits), and ultimately gets funneled to some drug lord in Mexico or south America, and that drug lord isn't somebody you'd want to smoke with. Crime runs rampant because the drug lords keep the cops out of the area. There's at least one entire Mexican state where the federal police are afraid to enter, and several times a year there are deadly shoot-outs between the feds and the drug lords. Those are deaths linked to marijuana that can be tracked directly, but usually aren't.

There are excellent moral reasons not to buy marijuana at this time, unless you know it wasn't imported and it was grown safely. Same is true for most of the other drugs: heroin funds organized crime (not necessarily Italian families, either), cocaine funds south american drug lords, etc.

But in a world where banana republics were superseded by oil republics, who gives a shit what happens to poor farmers in Mexico?

[Lord Pein]

Do many people really think of who they may be effecting by increasing demand for certain products? If I recall correctly, Nike treated their Chinese workers terribly and had to make some improvements or something, right?

[INW]

You mean this?

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/54/206.html