Ask Septembern Anything!

[Vuu]

Olive: I am hungry. What should I eat?

Answer: Chicken McNuggets

[Phytotron]

Thats not right.

This question is like "who came first? The Woman or the her Uterus?"

1. Chicken
2. Egg

The evolution of the uterus preceded the homo sapien female, just as the egg preceded the chicken. Get it? No, you don't. That's why you believe creationist nonsense.

[syllabear]

if something had to evolve the ability to reproduce using an egg, then didn't the <insert analogous chicken species> come first?

[Phytotron]

if something had to evolve the ability to

Shows a gross, though common, misunderstanding of the way evolution works.

[INW]

Evolution is not "monkey to man" or "egg to chicken".

Evolution is the change of a species of something over time ("over time" meaning thousands to millions of years, not a single life cycle).

There's biology class for ya.

[Vuu]

Another possibility would be that God created everything {The Chicken, The Egg, Human etc.}

I come from a religious family, but I still believe in the evolution theory.

Evolution: Possible
God : Hmm..

[syllabear]

if something had to evolve the ability to

Shows a gross, though common, misunderstanding of the way evolution works.

We have no idea how significant any mutations in the past were that led to evolutionary changes. Its not unforseeable to have a single mutation go from some kind of water resistant shell to a similar one that would be accepted as an "egg" with the calcium/protein protection matrix.

However, my general point still stands as at one point we have to recognise that the type of egg laid by the animal in question would be recognisable as what today we refer to as an egg. No matter how broad your definition is, the parent would therefore not be able to lay an egg (as we classify it), and the indivudal which laid that egg therefore have evolved the ability to lay the egg.

So I guess if you classify the animal which evolved the ability to lay the egg, you'd be forced to say that came first.

But if we are talking technically the exact chicken species would have come after the egg, since they must have been around far long (reptillian and fish species predate birds)

[Phytotron]

Again, you don't understand the basic concepts and mechanics of evolution and natural selection. There aren't these big, single-generation leaps from one fully-formed species to another, or even of major characteristics. And species (let alone individual animals) do not "evolve the ability to" anything. It doesn't work like that. Even INW seems to grasp that to some degree, so that should really give you pause.


But yes, to put an end to this (hopefully), the "egg" to which I've referred is the general egg, not necessarily a chicken egg. But even in the case of the chicken egg specifically, it evolved at least simultaneously with the chicken, and there's still a good chance the chicken egg preceded the speciation of the chicken.

I still believe in the evolution theory.

Er, a) evolution and the explanatory theory thereof aren't beliefs; b) even if we stipulate you were just speaking colloquially, apparently you don't "believe" it since you quoted a page from the ICR. Unless you posted that without actually reading or thinking about it, or having a clue as to its source, which is just as bad.

[Clutch]

This conversation makes my brain hurt.

[Vuu]

LOL!

i just copy/paste this text because its in English
I think that the Chicken comes first.


nvm

[syllabear]

Actually I do understand it, I'm just apparently having trouble getting my words together to describe it.

But yes, to put an end to this (hopefully), the "egg" to which I've referred is the general egg, not necessarily a chicken egg. But even in the case of the chicken egg specifically, it evolved at least simultaneously with the chicken, and there's still a good chance the chicken egg preceded the speciation of the chicken.

You can't really say there's a good chance, since we don't know.

I think the problem with this debate is there are so many variables that have to be classified very stringently (what do you classify as a chicken, what do you classify as a chicken egg? Is the ability to lay chicken eggs part of what makes a chicken a chicken?).

For example, if you classify the chicken with a set of criteria, and the chicken egg with another set (that describe it exactly as the common chicken egg exists today), but do not include the fact that the chicken has the ability to lay the "chicken egg" in it's criteria, it is feasable that the chicken predated the existance of the chicken egg, with maybe a few structural differences in the chicken egg (ratio of proteins for example) evolving subsequently.

But I guess thats just being nit-picky.

[Lackadaisical]

It just depends if you define a chicken egg as an egg a chicken comes out of, or an egg that was laid by a chicken. Once you've defined that, the debate is pretty much over.

[Phytotron]

But I guess thats just being nit-picky.

No, it's being more quasi-philosophical rather than scientific. Look, look up any treatment of the "chicken of the egg?" dilemma from an evolutionary perspective, and you'll find the same answer, no matter how it's broken down semantically.

[syllabear]

But I guess thats just being nit-picky.

No, it's being more quasi-philosophical rather than scientific. Look, look up any treatment of the "chicken of the egg?" dilemma from an evolutionary perspective, and you'll find the same answer, no matter how it's broken down semantically.

Fair point. I think its interesting how science moved in to answer what was likely a philosophical question to begin with.

[Phytotron]

Well, no, it was a scientific question about nature, originally proposed by philosophers and religionists—that is, by people who didn't have a scientific understanding of nature, or outright rejected one, and tended toward making up fanciful explanations instead.

Nowadays it's just an idiom and one of those little mental exercise games goofy science teachers like to put to their students.

Besides, we all know the first egg was the one from which the earth hatched. Like, duh.