Phytotron's stupid computer blog

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Jonathan
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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

Post by Jonathan »

Those files shouldn't have been executable in the first place and won't be affected by executability.

That scrolling behavior is caused by the OS. I suppose it can be called scroll acceleration, analogously to mouse (pointer) acceleration. Speaking of which, my 80-month-old thread about the latter has been demoted to Google's fourth results page. >_< On the other hand it's quite amazing that there hasn't been much to replace it.
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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

Post by Phytotron »

OK. I was wondering because some other ROMs I have that I didn't chmod, like for NES, have that preview icon in the Finder that says "exec." And I of course have no idea what the relationship is between an application and its files, as with the Arma data.

Well, I have just about everything copied over to the new drive now. With the USB 2.0 it's rather slow going. The drive I got is 1TB, so I ended up making 3 partitions on there. One HFS+ journaled that's just large enough to hold all the eMac and iMac data with some fudge room. That one is to be Mac-only; I won't touch that with Linux (beyond it mounting, obviously—unless there's a way to prevent that, anyone know?). Just more redundancy, I guess, to be safe. Then I split the rest in twain. The second is the HFS+ non-journaled for Mac&Linux. So, twice the time consumption of copying all that over twice. Then the third partition I left empty for unforeseen, to-be-determined usage, like, I dunno, if I have a reason to do ext4 or NTFS or something.

Once that's all done then I'll hook it up to this and do the chown thing on the Linux&Mac partition.

Once again, many thanks.


As to the scrolling, did some quick googling and there doesn't seem to be a way to get that sort of behavior on Linux. This was one of the first search results, but it's mentioned in reference to the magic mouse. Even if it applies to regular scrolling, I'm not sure I want to go messing around with that stuff (even if I understood it). It's a shame; handy feature.

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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

Post by Phytotron »

ARGH! The damn drive won't mount in Ubuntu! Doesn't mount in Windows 7, either. (Even though two out of the three partitions are HFS+, and the third is empty, it should still show up, shouldn't it?). Yet, it still shows and works fine on the old Power Mac, OS 10.6.

The drive has a USB 3.0 port, but the cable converts to USB 2.0, which is all this computer has; obviously the same with the Power Mac. If that's relevant. I've read Ubuntu may have some issues with 3.0, but...Windows 7 and the Mac....

I've tried plugging in while already booted, restarting while plugged in, and turning the computer off and starting up with it plugged in. In all cases, the drive itself starts up (no on/off switch; apparently it just recognizes when the USB has been connected and starts?), it just won't show. I did sudo fdisk -l and nothing other than the internal drive is displayed. EDIT: When doing the partitioning, I chose GUID. According to Wikipedia: "Some distribution tools, such as fdisk, don't work with GPT."

Any ideas? Googling doesn't really tell me anything. This is all just so infuriating.

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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

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Your kernel is lacking the proper filesystem support. Depending on how ubuntu is set up, you should be able to get a copy of your current kernel sources from its package manager.
Then run (probably as root) "zcat /proc/config.gz > /usr/src/linux" which will copy your kernels running config to the kernel source directory (which im just assuming will be /usr/src/linux, it usually is, but you might have to look up where ubuntu puts it).
cd to the kernel source directory and run make menuconfig, from that menu go into filesystems, and enable hpsf, hpsf+, and udf, save and exit.
run make && make modules install
mount /boot
cp arch/x86/boot/bzImage /boot/whatevertheshitubuntucallsitkernel (change x86 to x86_64 for a 64bit system, you can find the name of your kernel by doing ls in the /boot dir, and note the lack of a leading slash on the copy command, its the same as doing cp /usr/src/linux/arch/x86/boot/bzImage, you also might want to make a backup of the original kernel file in case you jack it up)
reboot.

Now for some fair warning, I think ubuntu might use an initrd, in which case youll need to look up an ubuntu specific kernel guide unless you are comfortable not having the initrd discover and load drivers for your hardware, but the general process should be about the same regardless of the distro.

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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

Post by Phytotron »

I don't understand a lick of that. Thanks, anyway?

I will point out, however, since you apparently didn't read preceding relevant posts (not that I would much expect one to sort through this mess), that the Ubuntu kernel has built-in read (journaled) and write (non-journaled) support for HFS+ file systems. Indeed, I have previously successfully mounted and read from an actual Mac drive (formerly internal, now external) with OSX installed on it and everything by doing nothing more than plugging in the USB.


So, does anyone have an idea on this?

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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

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Does it also have the partition support, or only the filesystem support, and yeah, I didnt wade through all the posts.

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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

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I couldn't find any info about partition support. Does that sound like a plausible cause to anyone else? I could always reformat the drive with a single partition and try it, but I was hoping to avoid the hours spread over multiple days of having to copy all that data over and back again.

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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

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At the risk of making it look like I've 'handled' the thread again, I'll hop in and say I just don't know. I don't believe you have a definite showstopper there. It should be possible to get it to work — I just don't know how. I'm also currently using my phone's data connection, where I can't transfer all that much without paying extra. After a few days I'll be less hesitant to scavenge the net.
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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

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Methinks it's about time I consulted the Ubuntu forums, not that they seem to know much more, from what I've searched thus far.

If I'm stuck using a single partition, then I'll want to return that monster drive and get a couple smaller ones, I guess. Bleh.

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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

Post by Phytotron »

EDIT: Eh, nevermind for now.


So, I've been checking out some different distros in anticipation of doing a proper install (I'm still on that "temporary/trial install" of Ubuntu, heh). Though, really, it has been limited to Kubuntu and the most recent Ubuntu. Why? Global menu. That's a deal-breaking feature for me, gotta have it, and these are the only distros that actually have an implementation of one, because after all, Windows 95.

I initially tried Kubuntu 12.04 for the LTS factor. Its implementation of a global menu is by way of a widget that lives in a panel. If you put the panel up top and align the widget to the left it's pretty much like you'd have in OSX or Ubuntu (minus the hiding behavior). Kubuntu 13.04, however, has a new implementation of a global menu, not a widget but a built-in option under...window behavior? It's put right smack in the middle of the top of the screen, as I've proposed should be the case with widescreen monitors—although, in practice I find that it's actually easier for me to fling the cursor in a more horizontal fashion to the upper-left corner, than to fling it to the top-middle. And after all, I find a launcher works well on the left side too. In any case, it also auto-hides, which is nice especially if you want to auto-hide all the panels for a nice, clean, uncluttered desktop, which I would like to do. Only real downside is it's a bit small with no way to adjust its size.

So then I went about figuring how I could piece together a Kubuntu desktop to my preference. I stuck a panel on the left and put the Homerun Launcher at the top. Inexplicably, it doesn't have a "recent applications" section, something I intend to contact the developer about if I go this route. Also oddly, the icon remains small even if increase the size of the panel, which visually conflicts with the next bit. So, then below that I stuck the "Icon Tasks" widget, which is basically like the dock Windows 7 integrated into its taskbar. Then I shrink and center the panel, in effect creating a simple dock.

While the default Kickoff Launcher is functional, it's just a bit too Windows-like for me, and also requires an extra click than having a dock would. ("Wait, you just said Icon Tasks is like Windows 7!" Yeah, which is like OSX. :P)

Then I made a small panel to the upper-left with navigation widgets like 'show desktop,' the active windows list, a drop-down Home folder view, and a workspace switcher would go here if I used one. Panel on auto-hide.

Then to the upper right, possibly two separate panels. One on auto-hide to include just the system tray, or individual widgets for sound, weather, etc.. Then a second one, always visible, to include the clock/calendar. Annoyingly, the 'digital clock' developer insists on having the date below the time, which means squeezing it all tiny, which in turn means having to increase the size of the panel to make it readable. There is apparently no date and time widget for Kubuntu that has a nice, simple, horizontal readout as in OSX or Ubuntu.

And then maybe on the right side I'd put a panel with little helpers like the calculator, dictionary, special characters chart, etc..

As I mentioned, one thing that really appeals to me is the ability to completely hide all panels, which cuts out a step in this little chore in connecting to the boob tube—no need to install Cairo/GLX Dock.

Also, I really dig this Steampunk Plasma Theme. :) It's unfinished as yet, but looks really nice so far. Most of the themes people have made for Kubuntu are friggin boring. Where's the creativity?! I've mentioned before all the cool, unique Appearance Themes and Kaleidoscope Schemes that people made for OS8.5-9.x. I'd really like to see that degree of creativity in the Linux community. There's so much talk about customization, but I really don't see much, not really. It's mostly minor variations on Windows. People have made some nice ones for GLX/Cairo-Dock, though.

I don't quite get the 'Activities' thing in Kubuntu, even after reading about it a bit. So...yeah...what is that? Same with Akonadi and Nepomuk.

Anyway, Kubuntu 13.04 does have a couple significant bugs. One, the date and time settings crash when trying to set it to automatically set the time with an online server, so you have to set your time manually. What the hell? This is such a basic thing. Linux, man. And in the update manager, when adding a repository, that crashes when you go to close it. The repository gets set, but it still crashes. Sad. One would hope to see bug fixes on those, and soon. I would just hope the version on the whole isn't unstable—that's my main reservation against going with this one.

Also, what's with all the little icons everywhere? Like, in menus and all over Dolphin and so forth. Can't even tell what most of them are, just ugly, unnecessary little blobs.


Then there's Ubuntu 13.04, which is said to be a lot speedier and less resource hungry than 12.04. Not many significant changes, and it has the date and time I like, heh. But it annoyingly moved the 'recent applications' to the second lens of the Dash, and a few other little things.

Or, of course, I could just stick with Ubuntu 12.04.


File browsers in all three suck, each for their own reasons; I won't break them down at this point, unless someone's curious. I had hopes for the one Elementary OS team is developing, which they call Pantheon Files (a fork or whatever of the defunct Marlin), because it has Miller Columns. But I installed in in Ubuntu and, exasperated sigh, just so bad. 1) The columns' width can't be adjusted, despite the cursor changing to double arrows when you hover over a dividing line. 2) There's no file preview; not in the final column (a la OSX) or in a separate panel. 3) It overrides Gloobus preview, and instead upon hitting spacebar opens the file in its default application. 4) There are a few basic options missing from right-click, such as "burn to disc." 5) Unbelievably, you can't copy/move multiple files at a time! You can select multiple files, but when you try to move them, it only moves the first in the list.

How can it be so bad? I swear, in so many ways Linux is like 10 years behind, and it seems part of the reason for that is deliberate obstinacy. It's a damn shame.


So, there it is. I mentioned to Lucifer in PM I'd give a little rundown of my experience with Kubuntu. Questions and comments welcome. :)
Last edited by Phytotron on Wed May 29, 2013 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

Post by Phytotron »

Oh, an addendum. So, something strange is happening with these LiveDVDs, or my computer, or something. First, yes, I've set BIOS to check the disc drive first when starting up. So, with the disc in the drive, when I restart from Ubuntu I get the Dell splash screen and then a blank screen with "Machine Check Error" in large font in the upper-left. It then automatically reboots and will continue in a loop until I F12 at the Dell splash and select it to boot from the HD. However, if I instead boot into Windows, not even logging in, then restart, I don't get the Dell splash screen and the LiveDVD boots. Wassupwitdat?

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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

Post by Bytes »

I find this computer blog stupid, where may I complain about this?

Sounds like a lot of exploring fun, I really don't have much experience with linux distros, only ever used (the pretty mainstream) mint 12, so not exactly a big jump from windows. I'll experiment with them a bit more some day *sigh*.
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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

Post by sinewav »

That is one of the things that is bad about Linux, the fact that using one is like an experiment. I miss it a little though. Hope to go back one day.

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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

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So, I'm on the verge of reinstalling for real this time. I'm still on the original Ubuntu 12.04 "test installation" I made back in 2012, and I've been quite content with it, but I've run out of space on this partition. With 14.04 LTS having come out, good time to upgrade, too. Also, it seems that the newer kernel (or something) may have resolved my external drive/partition issue...I think.

And since there are a few things with Ubuntu 14.04 I find a little annoying (e.g., superfluous clutter in the dash), I thought I would take the opportunity to try out some of the other 'buntu derivatives. In the end I'm kinda torn between Kubuntu and Xubuntu, each of which have their own annoyances. But let me talk about them by taking a tour through these two screenshots. I thought I would have a little nostalgic fun and try to give them an OS 9 kind of layout. :D
Xubuntu OS 9 mockup.png
Kubuntu OS 9 mockup.png
So, top bar of course. In the upper-left you see the Application Menu in place of the Apple Menu. I prefer these traditional ones to the newer K-menu and Whisker menu, and of course they're more reminiscent of OS 9, especially if you did the little trick back in the day of adding folder aliases to the 'Apple Menu Items' folder. The Kubuntu menu has the advantage of displaying 'recently used applications.' The categories are nice but aren't really necessary. Xubuntu's is a little cleaner, and I found it easier to edit. However, I think it wasn't quite working right. Like, I had to make all my edits in one go because subsequent ones wouldn't stick. Hopefully that was just a matter of the live session? Also, those two separators next to each other are meant to have a 'Home' directory menu in between them. No idea what I didn't do right there. Kind of a wash between the two, though.

Then we move to a major component: Kubuntu's implementation of a global menu (one of two, as mentioned in that earlier post) versus Xubuntu's damn local menus. I do not understand what's with the Linux obstinacy against global menus. Why can't it at least be an option? Obviously it can be done. Even Xubuntu once had one prior to 12.04, but no one has picked it up since then. If they're going to insist on a local menu, the least they could do is like they did with Unity in 14.04 and integrate it into the window's title bar with an auto-hide. It still violates Fitts's Law, but at least then you get the vertical space saving and don't have to look at them all the time. Kubuntu gets the nod here.

Next we jump to the clock. Xubuntu has the nice horizontal, side-by-side date and time. Kubuntu, on the other hand, has that shitty little Windows-style clock. It's tiny, unsightly, requires increasing the size of the panel, and like local menus is just plain reminiscent of Windows. Xubuntu gets the nod here.

Then there's the weather applet. Xubuntu's actually displays the current temperature (and yes, it was actually 62 friggin' degrees in the middle July; so angry) while Kubuntu's requires clicking on it. I like to glance up and see it. The drop-down displays are roughly equivalent. Nod to Xubuntu.

In the upper-right corner is each of these distros' versions of what was called the Application Switcher in OS 9, which was sort of its task manager. Click on it and a menu drops down displaying a list of all open applications. This is also the origin of the "Hide Others" and "Show All" commands that got shifted elsewhere in OSX; handy commands. The difference here is that in OS 9 it showed the title of the application, whereas the 'buntus just show an icon. Now I can't recall off-hand, but I think Kubuntu's had similar "hide" commands, plus a couple other options. Xubuntu's was characteristically simpler, but I think you could right-click and hide individual applications. I believe both have workspace switchers, but I don't use extra workspaces so it's moot. Nod to Kubuntu, though like the Application Menu, it's not a big factor; I'm not even sure I would use it in an actual installation, opting instead for a dock perhaps.

Now let's move to the window buttons. On the left is the close button, on the right is the maximize button—no accidental clicks. I set it so double-clicking the title bar would minimize while using the scroll wheel would shade the window. Window shading! Straight out of OS 9 (and earlier, of course), and I've missed it all these years. Both distros could be set up identically here, although Kubuntu's shading seemed a little janky, maybe just because it was a live session; it actually crashed Dolphin a couple times.

Then there's the desktop. I wouldn't have those icons there in an actual installation; this was just to mimic OS 9. One thing I found odd, though, was that in Xubuntu I couldn't place the trash any lower. Like there's a whole grid row on the bottom edge of the dekstop you can't use. I don't get that. Anyone know why?

Then, mainly just for fun I made a sort of Control Strip at the bottom with various little utilities. I was even able to BS the little handle grip with some separators in the Xubuntu one, heh. Were I actually to do something like this I would set it to auto-hide. Xubuntu's a little annoying with that, though, as it leaves a little edge of the panel showing when it "hides."


So, I'm sad I couldn't get a full OS 9 experience out of one of these by itself, since I do think it was a nice interface which could be improved with a few modern tweaks. As mentioned, I probably wouldn't make a fully OS 9-like layout in an actual installation, anyway, but there are a few key informative elements here.

I really don't know which way to go. I like Xubuntu for its snappiness and cleanness—both in terms of the minimalism as well as the cohesiveness between the various elements. But that local menu drives me mad, always having it in my face and using up vertical space. I would really prefer to have the global menu of Kubuntu, but that clock really bugs me. And overall it just feels clunky and patchwork to me. The widgets are just such a mishmash. Plus, Nepomuk and Akonadi, Activities—I don't really need those running for my purposes. It also seemed a little less stable, little crashes or other oddities.

Of course, I could just go back to Ubuntu.


Oh, also, there was this particularly annoying behavior with Xubuntu, which also happened in Mint XFCE, so sinewav, maybe you have some idea. So, I click on the sound/volume app indicator thing, and the little menu comes out with the slider. Normal. But when I move the slide, a second floating notification pops up on the desktop in the upper-right. Does this happen with you? Any idea how to stop that from happening?

(And what the hell is with the ZOMG-PONIES notification theme?! What in the actual f*ck?! Get off my computer, creeps!)

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Re: Phytotron's stupid computer blog

Post by sinewav »

Phytotron wrote:Then there's the desktop. I wouldn't have those icons there in an actual installation; this was just to mimic OS 9. One thing I found odd, though, was that in Xubuntu I couldn't place the trash any lower. Like there's a whole grid row on the bottom edge of the dekstop you can't use. I don't get that. Anyone know why?
I think this has something to with XFCE's grid. As you probably know, icons always snap to the grid. The size of the grid may be slightly offset from your monitor resolution causing you to lose a row. My resolution is 1280x800 (16:10) and I can use the bottom row. However, if I change my desktop icon size from 32px to 33 I will lose the bottom. You might want to play around with the icon or panel sizes to see if there is a better fit.
Phytotron wrote:Oh, also, there was this particularly annoying behavior with Xubuntu, which also happened in Mint XFCE, so sinewav, maybe you have some idea. So, I click on the sound/volume app indicator thing, and the little menu comes out with the slider. Normal. But when I move the slide, a second floating notification pops up on the desktop in the upper-right. Does this happen with you? Any idea how to stop that from happening?
Yes, it happens and is slightly annoying. The only options are to move the volume icon (breaks usability) or move the notification popup (affects all notifications). There is a file allowing you to tweak the appearance to the pixel, but the built-in settings manager works well enough.

After writing this I have decided to move notifications to the bottom right and that feels pretty good!

I'm still on XFCE. I gave Mate and Cinnamon another try, but I find XFCE still has the fewest annoyances, so I am sticking with it. For now.
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