US Election 2016

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sinewav
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Re: US Election 2016

Post by sinewav »

Word wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:11 am
Let's hope he doesn't try to start a civil war if he loses.
I have a friend who keep talking about a possible civil war and I think he's crazy. I don't see how it's possible. Trump has a lot of armed supporters, but they are selfish cowards. You can't win a war if you only care about yourself. They have no ideology outside what can be pieced together from bizarre conspiracy theories. Even if the police support Trump, enough of the top military guys don't. Our police force will quickly find out how untrained they are for conflict. And, the biggest impediment to having a civil war is that political boundaries in the US don't match geographic ones. There is no way to draw battle lines! If there is an armed conflict after the election, it won't look like anything the world has seen, and I imagine it will be started by right-wing cultists who will be swiftly put down and admonished. The entire thing could be over in a couple weeks.

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delinquent
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Re: US Election 2016

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Normally I might agree with you, but recent events have somewhat muddied the waters IMO. The autonomous zone in... was it Chicago(?) was somewhat unprecedented in modern times, which leads me to believe that at least part of the US would be open to armed opposition. Certainly not on the scale of a proper war, but pockets of resistance maybe. I can't claim to be an expert on US politics, but there certainly seems to be a greater degree of animosity lately. I wouldn't put it past certain foreign powers to somewhat "stir the pot" as it were (and as they have allegedly already done). I wonder if the results of the election might not incite at least some rioting - especially with the militarisation of the police.

I also wonder how great an impact the likes of image-boards will play in upsetting the social balance. They seem to have become a great deal more daring in recent years, and to be frank I find it quite troubling. There are communities of people openly engaged in the likes of QAnon (looking at you, voat), where the idea of arming oneself explicitly for the purpose of political opposition is subtly discussed too. They are leaking quite significantly into official resources, one can see this in photographs of federal police and military personnel wearing patches and the like.

It's also leaking on both sides of the political spectrum There was a recent spate of "#saveourchildren" posts that contained information primarily sourced from QAnon resources. I saw these posts openly shared by both left and right wing supporters, despite the source. To clarify, that particular part of the community is based on the "Comet Ping Pong" debacle, accusing the pizzeria of being a front for the kidnap and abuse of children - a factoid that has been clearly debunked.

To but it frankly, I am more than a little concerned. I really want to speed up my emigration process and get out of this environment since it's also leaking into UK politics, but that is a mammoth task that will take quite some time.

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Nanu Nanu
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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Nanu Nanu »

Recently my parents told me they genuinely believe there will be a civil war after the election, and that's why they are looking to leave the US ASAP. I told them I don't believe it would be possible, but they cite the recent riots as proof. They believe Trump will win and then all the activists that have been rioting will be the ones to start the war, which is opposite of what I would expect if you told me there is going to be a civil war after election. They've been sending me articles on how BLM members are being arrested for starting fires in California, among other things like how they are being paid hourly by democrats to riot and bring the heat on Trump. These ideas probably come from qanon in some way, and it worries me how many people I see with similar opinions when I look into it more. The most egregious ones are those I've seen on Breitbart.

Somewhat off topic: this video they sent me about postmodernism being the root of current activist ideas and ooh scary big bad for future of the US. I find it super ironic that the speaker is talking about how you shouldn't have to experience something to understand it objectively (racism, oppression, etc), but then goes on to completely misrepresent trans people :?
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delinquent
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Re: US Election 2016

Post by delinquent »

Nanu Nanu wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:01 pm
it worries me how many people I see with similar opinions when I look into it more.
There's the rub - it's already extraordinarily widespread, and not only in the US. For the most part, it's quite passive. It doesn't change everyday behaviour. However, it does change people's opinions and their consumption habits, both of information and of product. The former is the most concerning - echo chambers become more prevalent and more shielded from outside influence, in turn making it far more difficult to reverse the process as well as far easier to draw others in. It's divisive politics 101 - everyone else begins to feel threatened, and a subsection of those threatened see it necessary to take violent action. We saw the same impact during the Brexit campaign period, and it resulted in hugely divided peoples who were unable to objectively discuss the merits and deficits of either outcome, instead resorting to argumentative behaviour.

Word
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Re: US Election 2016

Post by Word »

sinewav wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:13 am
Word wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:11 am
Let's hope he doesn't try to start a civil war if he loses.
I have a friend who keep talking about a possible civil war and I think he's crazy. I don't see how it's possible. Trump has a lot of armed supporters, but they are selfish cowards. You can't win a war if you only care about yourself. They have no ideology outside what can be pieced together from bizarre conspiracy theories. Even if the police support Trump, enough of the top military guys don't. Our police force will quickly find out how untrained they are for conflict. And, the biggest impediment to having a civil war is that political boundaries in the US don't match geographic ones. There is no way to draw battle lines! If there is an armed conflict after the election, it won't look like anything the world has seen, and I imagine it will be started by right-wing cultists who will be swiftly put down and admonished. The entire thing could be over in a couple weeks.
Just to clarify, I also don't think there'll be an all-out civil war, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a string of right-wing terror attacks if he doesn't get elected again and demands/encourages his followers to be more violent. Like the "collusion" in his campaign or the current situation inside the White House, we won't really get to witness the result of a concerted effort/overarching plan to topple the current order (except maybe Putin's/China's plans to divide the US even further), but lots of "isolated" nutcases who think the world is about to end if Biden gets elected.

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kyle
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Re: US Election 2016

Post by kyle »

I've got a feeling that if he doesn't get elected, we won't have a known outcome come the middle of January. I actually do have a lot of fear with Mail in voting. Your signature literally has to match the one on your drivers licence for it to be valid. For me that was one signed on one of those crappy credit card pads quite a few years ago. So I think a lot of Mail in ballots will be tossed and I bet we never will know how many of those there are. I would guess it would hurt the democrats more.

Politics IMO has gotten to a point where there really isen't anyone running for the good of the country, just for the good of themselves.

But hey, lets just get that BFR completed so we can all move to Mars away from this mess :) At least there we want global warming to happen :)
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