unfortunately named persons and teams

[Amas0]

I AM A CHRISTIAN AN I DEMAND TO BE HEARD. I AM STRONGLY OFFENDED BY Lucifer's forum name. Lucifer still waiting on new forums name k ty

Inb4TyrantDeleteMyPostAgain

[Vogue]

I AM A CHRISTIAN AN I DEMAND TO BE HEARD. I AM STRONGLY OFFENDED BY Lucifer's forum name. Lucifer still waiting on new forums name k ty

Inb4TyrantDeleteMyPostAgain

How would you know what his name means? For all you know it's Lucifer matches.

[aP|Nelg]

Is this kid for real? The degree of ignorance, myopia, irrationality, incoherence, lack of nuance combined with idiotic literalism, nonsensical relativism, absence of empathy, and just plain stupidity in Durf's posts, here and elsewhere, is literally jaw-dropping.

jwdrp.gif

Seriously, is he for real? I can't take it.

He's not a kid as far as I know... I mean what kid has a job and doesn't go to school?

Then again I have no proof, but I trust Durf and I don't think he'd lie.

I AM A CHRISTIAN AN I DEMAND TO BE HEARD. I AM STRONGLY OFFENDED BY Lucifer's forum name. Lucifer still waiting on new forums name k ty

Inb4TyrantDeleteMyPostAgain

How would you know what his name means? For all you know it's Lucifer matches.

True... We don't know what lucifer meant when he was making his name. Why do you assume, Amas0?

[Phytotron]

proof or empirical evidence

harassment and hate-filled propaganda!

[sinewav]

2014-09-19-1062sea.png

I wonder how player seA Lion feels about this?

[Monkey]

It would be boring if nothing was going on here anymore. And I like topics where you get such an overwhelming look in the mind of someone else...

I totally agree Word; couldn't have put it better myself. Even if I don't agree with people, I like to hear their opinions, as long as they conduct themselves in an appropriate manner.

Lucifer is fine. I say that as a well known Christian, by the way.

There are religions other than your branch of Christianity y'know. I used to live with some muslims, whom I got to know very well, and I assure you that they would not think that "Lucifer" is fine. In fact, I'm sure that they would think that "Lucifer" is as bad as "Nazi".

[ChiefKeefOTF]

I AM A CHRISTIAN AN I DEMAND TO BE HEARD. I AM STRONGLY OFFENDED BY Lucifer's forum name. Lucifer still waiting on new forums name k ty

Inb4TyrantDeleteMyPostAgain

I agree I was always offended by Lucifer's forums name but I never had the balls to say it like this Amaso guy.
I'd be more happy if his forums name changed

[aP|Nelg]

I AM A CHRISTIAN AN I DEMAND TO BE HEARD. I AM STRONGLY OFFENDED BY Lucifer's forum name. Lucifer still waiting on new forums name k ty

Inb4TyrantDeleteMyPostAgain

I agree I was always offended by Lucifer's forums name but I never had the balls to say it like this Amaso guy.
I'd be more happy if his forums name changed

rookie alert...

[Lucifer]

@whoever

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=St+Lucifer

Ignoring for the moment these facts: In most Christian religions, Lucifer is the name of the angel before he starts the war in heaven. Also, In the original Latin, in Revelations 22:16, Jesus Christ was described using the word "lucifer" in it's "Bringing of Light" meaning. Then there's the part where Lucifer didn't become equated with Satan until the KJV was out, and well after it was out. Meaning there's ~2500 years worth of history where Lucifer was the morning star (In Roman mythology Lucifer was an enlightened bringer of wisdom and knowledge), or used as an adjective to mean "bringer of light" or something to that effect.

Ignoring all of that.

There are at least three sects of Satanism currently active in the US that I know about. All three of them have government recognition. One of them, the Satanic Temple, views Lucifer as a literary figure worthy of study, in part because Lucifer is often presented as a hero. In any case, the Satanic Temple has been in the news lately because they've been fighting for EVERYBODY's religious rights in an environment where GOP politicians are trying to push a Christian theocracy upon us.

Meaning: These repeated demands for me to change my name are religious persecution.

And, by the way, for those who want to equate Satanists with Nazis, need I remind you Hitler was Catholic?

Also, read this page:
http://thesatanictemple.com/about-us/35-2/

In my late teens, I identified as a Satanist, and then later found Anton LaVey's Church of Satan. Didn't join, they were a bit weirdo for me. Nowadays, I'm seriously considering joining the Satanic Temple.

I like them.

So, as it happens, these demands for me to change my name amount to religious persecution.

Now then, any last words before I lock this thread?

[compguygene]

When they threaten Lucifer's rights to his name, they threaten my rights as a Christian to express my views. I may not agree with his views, but religious freedom is universal. You either have it or not.

[Clutch]

At risk of sounding like dev/null...Hey idiots, this isn't a democracy, whether they're right or not the mods win, enjoy your ban

[Durf]

@takburger: I don't recall saying that Nazis or Nazism was "fine" or "nice" (I haven't mentioned my personal viewpoint on Nazism). So your question of saying such a thing to a child is irrelevant. Though to answer your question, I think that child would grow up to be more tolerant or at least open-minded towards other cultures (assuming that their own was not Nazi).
"Not seeing" is not a problem on my end, takburger, I'm well aware of what everyone has been mentioning. From a psychological standpoint, you are the one doing the perceiving, analyzing, and overall thinking about what you are exposed to (in this case "N4zi"). You can list all the atrocities you want, but it won't change that you are the one to start listing those atrocities over what is just a team name in an online game. You were the one to make that association, and you were the one to think about all that (you could argue that it triggered you to think all that, but then when is a person responsible for what they think?). Even a Buddhist would tell you how ridiculous this is.




@Z-Man: The possibility has occurred to me, which is why I'm open to discussion. I'm not stupid enough to intentionally defend the wrong side of a discussion. I am open to learning how I am wrong...about anything.
About the harassment, it was uncalled for: insults, negative stereotyping and propaganda, overall hostility to the act of me posting. Read the posts again and show me this "flak" (check Phytotron's posts); tell me how insults are any form of criticism.
You're suggesting that the harassment isn't harassment because I'm provoking it by posting what I have to say... I hope you know how ridiculous you sounded. I shouldn't be met with insults and attempts to deface just for posting. I can understand a difference of opinion, but insults? I may use more words, but if you check my posts, I am overall less vulgar than a large majority of people on these forums. So no, not once did I ever "provoke" or instigate this harassment. I'm not asking for it, quite the opposite, I've been asking people to stop for a while now. I shouldn't have to ask at all.

It's only racism if even after you changed your lifestyle, haircut, moved to a different city, altered your political views, the same group of people still hates you for some thing you cannot change, some thing they somehow still recognize.

^ Not entirely sure what to make of that...negative discrimination or treating someone badly because of who they are is just what it is. Whether or not it's because of race, gender, ethnicity or whatever, that treatment is obviously a bad thing. That being said:

You cannot be racist against Nazis.

Yes you can (they are a race of people); though let's pretend they're not, because you'll see how it actually doesn't matter if you're "racist" or not. The treatment is still negative. People are bashing on Nazis just for being who they are. Tell me, is that right? Is that any different than what the Nazis did? (you're not killing anyone for it, but you're still treating them poorly for the reason that they are who they are)
It doesn't matter whether you think they deserve it or not, that shouldn't matter. What about the fact that nearly every Nazi that participated in the war is dead by now? Does reform or redemption mean anything to you?

Also, I'm surprised the swastika is banned in Germany, but that's also understandable since there is little-to-no Asian cultural influence there. But then what are the laws on the internet? Typically prosecution follows the procedure from the hosting country. I mean, you can't get arrested for a foreign pop-up window displaying the swastika...can you? o.o




@Johnathan: I'm not "affirming the consequent" as you put it. You yourself said:

You cannot assert that a language is something it is not, or you will misunderstand and be misunderstood stemming from your own naïveté.

And I couldn't agree more. My entire point in this thread is that the people create the context of what the team name means to them based on their experience and what they know; I was only ever pointing out how ridiculous it is to get this worked up over a team name on a ladle (oh noes! Nazis!)

One does not simply undermine Nazism, and one does not play games with it.

^ Why not?




@Phytotron: what? You didn't quote any context, so if your intent was to look for an excuse to post a pic meant only to insult (btw yes ik what the word means, get a dictionary) then why are you posting? Here, I'll say it again for you: proof or evidence, harassment and propaganda. Any more triggers I should know about? Please don't post if you're only trying to antagonize me.




@Lucifer: You may list all the facts you want, biblical references, religious sects...none of it matters (Not really. It does matter, just not in the manner you think it does).
The point being made is that people still interpret your name as offensive (just as people interpret "N4zi" to be offensive). It's just how they see it...doesn't matter how you see it.
There's also very little room for misinterpretation; you're no angel, just check your signature. It's there for the public to see.
Given your admitted association with satanism, surely you can understand how it might seem offending to some people..?

Though, IMO, you shouldn't have to change your name; my position on that is the same with the team name "N4zi". You should have the freedom to represent yourself as you choose.

1) Satanism accepts everyone so why aren't you accepting towards Nazis? (more specifically, the tronners "N4zi", whether or not they are Nazi IRL)
2) How can you justify getting your way (for your name) when it clearly offends people, and them ("N4zi") not getting their way for the very same reason?
3) How can you take the complaints about "N4zi" so seriously and treat the complaints regarding your name so frivolously? (I know people that wouldn't even start playing tron just because a moderator of the forums is associated with "the devil" or "Satan". Overall, it might be a very serious issue...)

^ Explain hypocrisy please. ^




@Clutch: LMAO Yea, I guess that's my own fault for assuming a moderator would do their job properly. I'm still learning new things about both Z-Man and Lucifer >_> Clearly they are only accepting of certain kinds of people; hard to know if you're one of those or not until you're banned.

[takburger]

@takburger: I don't recall saying that Nazis or Nazism was "fine" or "nice" (I haven't mentioned my personal viewpoint on Nazism). So your question of saying such a thing to a child is irrelevant. Though to answer your question, I think that child would grow up to be more tolerant or at least open-minded towards other cultures (assuming that their own was not Nazi).
"Not seeing" is not a problem on my end, takburger, I'm well aware of what everyone has been mentioning. From a psychological standpoint, you are the one doing the perceiving, analyzing, and overall thinking about what you are exposed to (in this case "N4zi"). You can list all the atrocities you want, but it won't change that you are the one to start listing those atrocities over what is just a team name in an online game. You were the one to make that association, and you were the one to think about all that (you could argue that it triggered you to think all that, but then when is a person responsible for what they think?). Even a Buddhist would tell you how ridiculous this is.

You're insulting your own eyes as you fail to understand what I said.

[Durf]

You're insulting your own eyes as you fail to understand what I said.

I don't believe I've misunderstood anything you've said. But because you said this:

But now I'm not willing to help you see anymore, I'm out.

I guess I can't ask you to elaborate on what I misunderstood exactly.
I feel I answered your post appropriately.

I would have gone in depth into each line and explain what I understood it as, asking you to show me the error I made, but not only is this getting off topic, you are also unwilling to help me see anymore.
I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree...though this shouldn't mean we can't enjoy a good game together on the grid.

If you'd like to continue our discussion, I'm up for PMs (so we don't clutter this topic).




I'd like to hear from some of the others I posted to as well.

[Word]

Now I wonder what actual World War II Nazis themselves would say to Durf. They'd probably be as confused as everyone else here. There is no Nazi race. Even if by Nazi you mean Aryan, which is the denomination the Nazis themselves employed, you'd be wrong because it is an unscientific concept that only served to give their ideology an intellectual foundation.

So Durf, why should we take anything you say seriously? Why should anyone try to have empathy for anyone else when everything is just based on their preconceptions and nothing has an inherent meaning that isn't up for a positive interpretation?

Also, I'm surprised the swastika is banned in Germany, but that's also understandable since there is little-to-no Asian cultural influence there

Yeah, like our lawmakers sat together and someone said "Hey, we have little-to-no Asian cultural influence, we don't need swastikas, let's ban them just for the sake!", standing ovations.

You somehow keep betraying yourself and don't see the big pile of crap in front of you, until you have to admit that the emptiness of virtually everything else around that pile which you use to counter isn't really supporting your case (and on the contrary, if intepreted correctly, helping to further outline that pile).