Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

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Word
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by Word »

I appreciate the effort some of you have put in their suggestions for changes of the settings. I don't mind if the strategies and objectives/hole sizes and the likes change every now and then. However, I doubt any of that will help to draw more people to the game and fortress in the long run - at best it makes the game more interesting for the older players that got bored of the current setup - mind you, I wouldn't oppose that at all, but I feel like none of these 'internal' changes tackle the real, 'external' problem, which is the small influx of players from other servers or people who just downloaded the game. I'm not really a soccer fan, but I think the basic rules there stay the same, and don't depend on the game's popularity (or vice versa) - the FIFA's marketing department just gets access to more money every now and then, but there's a public outcry every time someone wants to edit a typo in the golden book of football rules.

What I'm trying to say is, Concord and kyle are probably spot on when they suggest that we would have to get people to like the game and sort of evangelize, but at the same time - and this has been missing in the discussion for some reason - we can ask those people who try fortress for the first time why they liked/didn't like it (maybe there's some more than just the grinding at start? maybe add a small wall that makes grinding a more logical thing to do?) and conduct some kind of survey with questions along the lines of "How did you learn of this server?"/"What do you think of the community here?"/"Is this your first multiplayer experience in Armagetron?"/"Where have you played before?" etc, in order to learn about the strengths and weaknesses from the perspective of the people we want to reach. As it is now, we are just discussing what the best shot in the dark might be.
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theo
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by theo »

Rudycantfail wrote:Removing holes- Hole gameplay is and will always be an essential part of fortress play, without holes a defender would literally have the most boring job in the world and skilled players could just drives turtling rectangles around a zone without any threat for long periods of time, dragging games on forever and making them less exiting.
Except if the tail is shorter.
Rudycantfail wrote:Or even have a small winzone in the center of the zone that if reached causes the zone in question to be conquered.
That sure would make rounds shorter. After one successful center, the round is over.
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by Monkey »

I posted a comment with my feelings on Tron Times but I think I should post here too.

There are simply two reasons why this game is in such a state:

1) Assholes, assholes, assholes - the MAJOR problem
2) Stupid game types and servers - a minor problem

1) The effect that assholes is having on our game is PHENOMENAL. It’s not even just new players that are put off this game. I for one am going to explode the next time someone annoys me, as they have been recently. Assholes are BY FAR the biggest problem we have. In my opinion, the community is even less friendly than it used to be. If the majority of people in this game talked to other people nicely and respectfully we would have a much larger and more active community, especially in Fortress/Sumo/Good game modes.

2) Take a look at the master list. Trying to find a decent server to play on, especially for a new player, it is almost impossible. It’s a mess. We don’t even have a low rubber, high cycle delay LMS server similar to Armagoshdarn for new players to play on.
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blondie
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by blondie »

don't overthink the settings

cutting is more fun than holing


Monkey's second point is a very good one. New players download the game to play something closely resembling Tron. Don't worry about teaching them fort, worry about keeping them playing and getting them involved in the community. If they have the baseline skills- they can handle low rubber, they can play in a team, they can communicate effectively, they understand the forum<->game aspect- then the fort learning curve becomes much more manageable.
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compguygene
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by compguygene »

Well, the real challenge of a low rubber high cycle delay server isn't putting one up. It's getting people to actually bother playing in it. I have hosted one that I created like that and tired of hosting a server that was almost never used. If the community isn't going to bother playing LMS, a thousand LMS servers won't help.
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takburger
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by takburger »

all of you, to make this game more alive, just stop using this forum and go in a server and do some turns.
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sinewav
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by sinewav »

takburger wrote:do some turns
Let's put that on shirts/stickers/mugs. I kinda want a coffee mug that says "Do Some Turns."
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takburger
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by takburger »

sinewav wrote:
takburger wrote:do some turns
Let's put that on shirts/stickers/mugs. I kinda want a coffee mug that says "Do Some Turns."
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compguygene
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by compguygene »

In the last 3 days, when I have had time to tron, there has been a public fortress game going on! 2 of 3 of those days there was at least one person new to fortress. That sounds like a solid start.
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Monkey.D.Luffy
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by Monkey.D.Luffy »

Turn tron into a moba game.
gg wp report for feed.

No seriously if you want more players to play this game you should erase the local game mode and get new players into the online mode from the moment they start the game. Like...once you click on "start game" it put you on the servers list. And a tutorial wouldn't be a bad idea.
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Magi
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by Magi »

Monkey.D.Luffy wrote:Turn tron into a moba game.
gg wp report for feed.

No seriously if you want more players to play this game you should erase the local game mode and get new players into the online mode from the moment they start the game. Like...once you click on "start game" it put you on the servers list. And a tutorial wouldn't be a bad idea.
If we get rid of local what will I do when I have no internet and am forced to spend time actually interacting with other people?
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vov
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by vov »

I really liked it when "Multiplayer" got shuffled to the top of the main menu back then. It already is the thing you do when you mash enter a few times. And why remove the good old split screen local game? :o

On that note, do we maybe have to give a quick guide on how to set up the game for local/splitscreen/lan/online (on the main page probably)?
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kyle
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by kyle »

the mainpage should have some sort of about the game on the index page, she have tutorial/quick starter guides linked from there, weather they be on the wiki (probably preferred) or a part of the main site.

@Monkey.D.Luffy, there is a really good tutorial in 0.4.
maybe z-man will read this, maybe in 0.4 once first installed, it asks whether you are a new or returning player, to avoid being forced into the tutorials.
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blondie
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by blondie »

the notion that "doing some turns" will change anything is hopelessly wishful thinking.

if you want change, you have to make it. you've just been "doing some turns" for years. it's the problem, not the solution.

for at least the past year, it's been impossible to get a decent fort game outside of Ladle semifinals and finals. Casual/pickup fort is a painful exercise in cognitive dissonance, because everyone involved knows the best way to win fortress rounds is to play Ladle-style fortress, yet that style is distinctly not fun. When winning is less important, as it is in casual games (pickup included), a completely different type of fortress is played. It's no better than being in a sumo server and seeing everyone mazing. It's no different than the open/loose, backdooring rules in hr/df servers.

the fortress community has continually refused to do anything with an eye to sustaining itself, so it's no wonder it's at the stage it is.
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-*inS*-
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Re: Ladle & Fortress (RIP?)

Post by -*inS*- »

I know I'm in the minority here, but I only enjoy the game when it's played at the highest level. I don't have fun anymore playing fortress outside of ladle. Pickup used to emulate the feeling quite well, it was a revelation for many of us - these new serious, organized matches. Some of the best fortress matches ever played were under that system. I used to play it for hours and never get bored. The problem ended up being that it replaced casual fortress. Suddenly the matches were less serious and the only avenue newer players could start playing. So now I don't really play at all.
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