Vista (or rather, some ISPs) and our DNS entries

[Z-Man]

They don't mix. We've got this thread: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=18138

And this conversation on IRC:

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[12:26] <K-Yo> masters servers 3 and 1 are down according to my version of arma, is this normal?
[12:26] <philippeqc> i dont recall meeting you, so I'll welcome you to the community just in case you have joined during the year
[12:26] <philippeqc> humm, good question.
[12:28] <K-Yo> the master 3 has always been down (0.3 - vista) but the 1 down, is more recent
[12:28] <K-Yo> yeah ;)
[12:28] <K-Yo> ty
[12:28] <philippeqc> i wouldnt think its normal, I dont recall seing any scheduled downtime
[12:28] <K-Yo> ok
[19:04] <z-man> philippeqc, K-Yo: Master 1 is definitely running and showing activity.
[19:05] <K-Yo> and about master 3?
[19:05] <z-man> Dunno, that's not mine
[19:06] <z-man> basic ping to it works
[19:07] <z-man> And Bugfarm Sumo has no problem sending its info to any of the masters.
[19:07] <z-man> What are your symtoms?
[19:17] *** kidanger[away] is now known as kidanger.
[19:18] <wrtlprnft> philippeqc, K-Yo, z-man: master3 appears to be running just fine
[19:18] <K-Yo> when i try connecting
[19:19] <K-Yo> it just shows DSN error when client tries master server 3 or more recently 1
[19:20] <wrtlprnft> resolves just fine for me
[19:20] <K-Yo> maybe it's vista
[19:20] <K-Yo> or 0.3 :s
[19:20] <wrtlprnft> IP address of master3.armagetronad.net is 77.47.5.89
[19:20] <wrtlprnft> IP address of master1.armagetronad.net is 80.135.40.13
[19:34] <K-Yo> where can i see if arma has the right adresses?
[19:39] <z-man> You enter "ping master1.armagetronad.net" at the command prompt
[19:41] <K-Yo> ok
[19:42] <K-Yo> "unknown command" maybe u meant... bla bla
[19:42] <z-man> vista doesn't have ping?
[19:43] <K-Yo> ah in cmd in vista
[19:43] <K-Yo> sry
[19:44] <K-Yo> he doesn't find master1.armagetronad.net
[19:44] <z-man> but master2 and master4 work?
[19:45] <K-Yo> i tried pin 80.135.40.13 it does not work
[19:45] <K-Yo> yep 2 works
[19:45] <z-man> That's normal, I don't accept pings.
[19:45] <K-Yo> ah no, 2 doesn't work
[19:45] <K-Yo> but i got the ip of master2
[19:46] <K-Yo> i mean, cmd gave me the ip
[19:46] <K-Yo> and luciferarma.kicks-ass.net
[19:47] <K-Yo> 1° master 1 isn't found, same for master 3
[19:47] <K-Yo> 2° master 2 is found but no answer to ping
[19:47] <K-Yo> 3° master 4 answers
[19:47] <z-man> no ping response is fine.
[19:48] <z-man> and lucerferarma is fine, too.
[19:48] <K-Yo> nice
[19:48] <K-Yo> but it stills doesn't find 1 and 3
[19:48] <z-man> But odd, becasue master1 should resolve to armagetron.kicks-ass.net the same way as master2
[19:48] <K-Yo> may it be my internet provider?
[19:48] <z-man> and it's absolutely the same service.
[19:49] <z-man> We've got reports from others on the forum about beta.armagetronad.net not resolving properly.
[19:49] * z-man is tempted to blame Vista, indeed.
[19:50] * K-Yo too ^^ it's so easy
[19:50] <K-Yo> but if i try with the cmd in vista, it has nothing to do with my bersion of arma
[19:50] <K-Yo> i'll try on xp
[19:50] <K-Yo> downstairs
[19:51] <z-man> good idea.
[19:52] <K-Yo> exactly same answers
[19:52] <K-Yo> i use the same provider as epsy and i'm  at less than 10 km of his home
[19:53] <K-Yo> i don't think he has these problems :s
[19:54] <K-Yo> oh!
[19:54] <K-Yo> master 1 just answered
[19:54] <K-Yo> on arma
[19:54] <K-Yo> but on in cmd window
[19:55] <K-Yo> oh and master 3 answers perfectly on arma and cmd
[19:56] <z-man> No ping answer from master1 and 2 is still perfectly normal.
[19:56] <z-man> So, we have ideed to blame Vista, goody :)
[19:56] <z-man> Of course, that does not get us closer to a solution.
[19:56] <K-Yo> no more answers
[19:56] <K-Yo> :'(
[19:57] <K-Yo> yeah ur right ;)
[20:01] <K-Yo> you know why they answered once?
[20:09] <z-man> Nope. Answering to the standard pings really is optional.

So it appears Vista has random problems with resolving our DNS entries. Random because I can't see a difference between the way master1 and 2 are handled (apart from the fact that master1's IP changes more often) and one of them is working for K-Yo, the other isn't.

My imprisoned Vista installation resolves all master servers and aabeta just fine, so I can't determine what may be the cause (even if I was less clueless about Windows and knew where to start looking). Does anybody else have a clue how to approach this problem?

[Lucifer]

Maybe it's something about where the DNS entries resolve?

Master 2 is mine, iirc. I'm using no-ip for DNS services, what are the others using? (Also, iirc, I've got it setup so it's actually a bunch of cnames that eventually point at a dyndns.org host, as silly as that sounds)

Edit: Also restarted my master server, apparently I forgot to restart it when I was shifting furniture around yesterday. Sorry about that.

[Lucifer]

I suspect a caching problem. How often does master1's IP address change?

The reason is, if vista is caching from the original cname (which is hosted by no-ip), then it may be failing to find the old ip address because it's looking for a cached IP address.

master2 has a long chain of cnames before it finally resolves to luciferarma.kicks-ass.net, but those are all hosted at no-ip. IN any case, if the original cname is cached (meaning the server that's pointed at by the cname is cached, which I believe is wiki.davefancella.com, which in turn cnames to www.davefancella.com, which finally cnames to luciferarma.kicks-ass.net), that's also hosted by no-ip, and therefore on a static IP address, so the lookup based on that cache will still succeed.

Admittedly it's thin, but it does account for the difference between master1 and master2, both of which end at the same service provider (dyndns.org, which owns the kicks-ass.net domain).

[Z-Man]

Mine's master1, and master1.armagetronad.net is a cname entry that resolves directly to the dyndns name armagetron.kicks-ass.net, so apart from the intermediate cnames, that's pretty much the same as for master2.

[Lucifer]

If it's a caching problem, it's unlikely the problem is in vista, as your sandboxed vista has no problems.

Are K-Yo and neutrino the same person? If not, what ISP does each of them have?

[Z-Man]

K-Yo is using Free Haut débit, as far as I understood. And apparently I misinterpreted his statements and he had similar problems with XP, so for now, it looks rather like the ISP is to blame.

[epsy]

later on i spoke with him in french, he tried to use the same DNS servers as mine

then he could connect to master1.armagetronad.net

but still he couldn't connect(we only tried on an http wise) to http://master3.armagetronad.net/, as he had no problem with http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/

[Tank Program]

master4 is cnamed to no-ip as well. Any dynamic DNS should have a small TTL value that tells every DNS server along the way to fetch the new one every 5 minutes or so instead of caching. (If I understand it correctly anyway.) Maybe Vista is ignoring the TTL and just holding onto the old IPs anyway, forcefully holding onto them for 24 hours?

[K-Yo]

while browsing forums i found that subject... so i registered (first time i have someting to say )
1° @philippeqc

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[12:26] <philippeqc> i dont recall meeting you, so I'll welcome you to the community just in case you have joined during the year 

-> thanks a lot

2°This is not a Vista problem, i have the same on another computer (same internet connection) with xp.
I thought it was my DNS but using epsy's didn't help much :s i can't access from the game the master 1 and 3 and i can't download the map from Fortress Test Server.
I also can't access some websites like: http://ratings.armagetronad.net. But i can see them through http://anonymouse.org

edit: I've just tried http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/, it worked :s